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Post by jonnymosco on Apr 18, 2018 13:10:35 GMT
I thought it would be interesting to make a short video comparing the two.
The factory built guitar cost c. £90 - the luthier built, more obviously.
I reckon the cheap Thomann guitar is fantastic value, especially with a solid top and I hope that the handmade guitar justifies that bit more.
I'd love to do one for steel string soon.
Cheers
Jonny
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leoroberts
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My main instrument is: probably needing new strings
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Post by leoroberts on Apr 18, 2018 13:15:43 GMT
Well, the luthier-built jobby sounded clearer and louder to me. For a good player that would probably be difference enough. For your average Joe, though?
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Post by andyhowell on Apr 18, 2018 14:41:14 GMT
I've had nine factory built guitars from Asia I've had nicer guitars from 'boutique' producers And a nicer luthier guitar. But reality is reality. The only advice i give people is to buy the best guitar they can afford! Once they have fixed their top price it's reasonably straight forward! (I'm assuming a certain financial self discipline here ...) Intersting video jonnymosco
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Post by nkforster on Apr 19, 2018 1:14:10 GMT
Yep, good post Jonny. There are a lot of good guitars out there and a of rubbish ones too. The odd thing is, you can't separate the wheat from the chaff by looking at the price tag or where it came from or who made it. You have to play them. That's the only way really. Solid is not always superior to laminated, luthier made is not always better than factory made. Even at the top end, there is a strong element of chance involved in the final outcome. And the law of diminishing returns always applies to high end stuff. Nigel www.nkforsterguitars.com
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Post by andyhowell on Apr 19, 2018 7:54:31 GMT
Yep, good post Jonny. There are a lot of good guitars out there and a of rubbish ones too. The odd thing is, you can't separate the wheat from the chaff by looking at the price tag or where it came from or who made it. You have to play them. That's the only way really. Solid is not always superior to laminated, luthier made is not always better than factory made. Even at the top end, there is a strong element of chance involved in the final outcome. And the law of diminishing returns always applies to high end stuff. Nigel www.nkforsterguitars.comSpot on. Please don't buy guitars mail order or over the internet (except Nigel's of course). If you want an instrument to live with take the time to check it out ...
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Post by jonnymosco on Apr 19, 2018 8:07:59 GMT
]Spot on. Please don't buy guitars mail order or over the internet (except Nigel's of course). If you want an instrument to live with take the time to check it out ... All good advice... but what if you commission a guitar and it's not what you were expecting? Jonny
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Post by andyhowell on Apr 19, 2018 8:11:39 GMT
Yep, good post Jonny. There are a lot of good guitars out there and a of rubbish ones too. The odd thing is, you can't separate the wheat from the chaff by looking at the price tag or where it came from or who made it. You have to play them. That's the only way really. Solid is not always superior to laminated, luthier made is not always better than factory made. Even at the top end, there is a strong element of chance involved in the final outcome. And the law of diminishing returns always applies to high end stuff. Nigel www.nkforsterguitars.comSpot on. Please don't buy guitars mail order or over the internet (except Nigel's of course). If you want an instrument to live with take the time to check it out ...
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Post by Onechordtrick on Apr 19, 2018 8:40:51 GMT
Yep, good post Jonny. There are a lot of good guitars out there and a of rubbish ones too. The odd thing is, you can't separate the wheat from the chaff by looking at the price tag or where it came from or who made it. You have to play them. That's the only way really. Solid is not always superior to laminated, luthier made is not always better than factory made. Even at the top end, there is a strong element of chance involved in the final outcome. And the law of diminishing returns always applies to high end stuff. Nigel www.nkforsterguitars.comSpot on. Please don't buy guitars mail order or over the internet (except Nigel's of course). If you want an instrument to live with take the time to check it out ... Or from a retailer who won't set it up. I bought my first mandolin from my, now defunct, local music store. Knew nothing about mandolins and nearly gave up because it was effectively unplayable: action too high, intonation out etc.. I did persevere and worked out how to do a setup. But I wonder how many people buy online on a whim, like I did, and give up because of a poor set up?
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mandovark
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Post by mandovark on Apr 19, 2018 9:44:18 GMT
]Spot on. Please don't buy guitars mail order or over the internet (except Nigel's of course). If you want an instrument to live with take the time to check it out ... All good advice... but what if you commission a guitar and it's not what you were expecting? Jonny There's obviously an element of risk when you commission an instrument. I think it largely comes down to choosing the right builder. When I commissioned my custom Brook, I had a very specific idea of what I wanted, so I was a bit nervous about whether what I had in mind would be what the guitar sounded like when it was built. Obviously I'd talked it through with the guys at Brook, but of course that always brings you back to the problems of describing sound. The main reassurance for me was that before I ordered I'd played a lot of Brooks (and already owned one). I didn't know exactly what my guitar would sound like, but I was fairly confident it would sound like a Brook, so beyond that it was a case of fine-tuning and getting the details right. Beyond that, I think it's about how well you know and can trust the builder if you were to end up in a situation where you really weren't happy with the finished instrument.
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Post by pender on Apr 19, 2018 10:57:55 GMT
Yep, good post Jonny. There are a lot of good guitars out there and a of rubbish ones too. The odd thing is, you can't separate the wheat from the chaff by looking at the price tag or where it came from or who made it. You have to play them. That's the only way really. Solid is not always superior to laminated, luthier made is not always better than factory made. Even at the top end, there is a strong element of chance involved in the final outcome. And the law of diminishing returns always applies to high end stuff. Nigel www.nkforsterguitars.comSpot on. Please don't buy guitars mail order or over the internet (except Nigel's of course). If you want an instrument to live with take the time to check it out ... You are right, Andy. But in sunny Lisbon there's no chance to play other brands than Martin, Taylor, Sigma and Yamaha. Buying without playing is always a risk but I'm go for it protected with a good return period.
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Post by jonnymosco on Apr 19, 2018 12:28:27 GMT
When I've commissioned a guitar the luthier has always said: "if you don't like it, I'll make another". I've never taken them up on the offer.
Jonny
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Post by vikingblues on Apr 19, 2018 18:12:17 GMT
Good video Jonny. More projection and expression from the luthier model, but that Thomann don't half sound too bad for £90! I suspect that the difference for real is bigger than on video as it's not had the sound compressed etc by the medium it's on. It is best to try before you buy, but I'll admit that one half of my steel string collection (the two that I play the most) were bought untried online, albeit with return if not happy permitted. I would have spent way more money in travelling to get to where they were being sold than what a return courier cost would be. Plus withd one of them I had tried one locally when it appeared briefly for the only time ever in shops around here, and the guitar store had made a real botch job of set up and strings making it impossible to evaluate the guitar (that was not Scayles I hastily add). I have also found that the amount of time playing an instrument in a shop is nowhere near long enough to tell me if a guitar is going to be a long term prospect - the fault no doubt is mine. I also think it's best to buy from a shop that specialises in acoustic instruments - very rarely have I found good knowledge and advice in bigger stores that major in electric gear. Mark
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Post by jonnymosco on Apr 19, 2018 18:53:52 GMT
Well, the luthier-built jobby sounded clearer and louder to me. For a good player that would probably be difference enough. For your average Joe, though? I've been mulling this over and think that a luthier-made, or half decent workshop guitar makes your life easier for classical style music, and also for fingerstyle in the steel world. A cheap factory made guitar may sound alright, but it cannot deliver the sustain needed in the trebles (to help make connections between the melody notes) or clarity in the bass. The video shows that the Thomann guitar is great value and sounds acceptable, but is very muddy. I'm not always too fussed about volume as some of the greatest sounding guitars I've played have been very intimate and still engaging. I've done okay stumbling across used handbuilt guitars at bargain prices - it you don't care about the cosmetics, it's possible to find something cheaper, and better, than a run-of-the-mill factory guitar. I'm also more of the persuasion these days to buy something I've tried (and fallen in love with) rather than order something. Jonny
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Post by Mike Floorstand on Apr 19, 2018 19:07:47 GMT
The luthier-built sound seemed much warmer too me, but also it looked like you were more comfortable and enjoyed playing it more, easier to get better sound, maybe easier to produce vibrato so you did this more often and for a fraction longer?
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Post by jonnymosco on Apr 20, 2018 10:03:21 GMT
The luthier-built sound seemed much warmer too me, but also it looked like you were more comfortable and enjoyed playing it more, easier to get better sound, maybe easier to produce vibrato so you did this more often and for a fraction longer? I think you're right - goes to show that an inspirational instrument encourages more from the player. Jonny
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