|
Post by fatfingerjohn on Jul 21, 2018 13:26:34 GMT
Hi,
This is probably one for the luthiers? Was talking to a chap yesterday who makes acoustic guitars; not full time as he has a music shop (sales and repairs). Reckons he's made 8 or 9. He showed me one which is something of a prototype (finished but a little rough in the odd place re finish). It had NO soundhole at the front (i.e. just the soundboard top). The main sound port was at the back, so that for a right hander it was above where the guitar body rests against the chest. He also had a small sound port in the side at the top left but he reckoned this was not really for performance, more ease of making.
All I have read before about this concerns people putting a soundhole 'cover' on the normal sound hole at the front, apparently for when they are plugged in and to avoid feedback when increasing the volume (??). Most comments I've seen seem to say the soundhole cover dulls the sound when unplugged.
That all makes sense and as nearly every acoustic instrument has sound port/holes at the front then that must be the accepted best practice.
So, only problem is that this guitar, unplugged, sounded absolutely amazing; excellent volume and sustain across the whole range.
Interested in your expert opinions (not too technical please .... ).
Regards
John
|
|
|
Post by PistolPete on Jul 22, 2018 4:28:39 GMT
Many of Lloyd Loar's later designs after he left Gibson and started Vivitone had f-holes on the back, although from what I understand the idea was that they would project the sound from a second internal soundboard. There's a bit about them here & here
|
|
davewhite
Luthier / Guitar Maker
Luthier
Aemulor et ambitiosior
Posts: 3,544
|
Post by davewhite on Jul 22, 2018 7:09:18 GMT
Cat way skin to many a
|
|
|
Post by fatfingerjohn on Jul 22, 2018 8:07:00 GMT
Many of Lloyd Loar's later designs after he left Gibson and started Vivitone had f-holes on the back, although from what I understand the idea was that they would project the sound from a second internal soundboard. There's a bit about them here & hereThanks, very interesting second link (first only comes up with 'blank page' for me). I think I would need to listen from in front of the guitar from about 10 yards away and compare to others to see what the projection is. It may be that it sounds very good when you're on top of it but not in an audience?
|
|
|
Post by PistolPete on Jul 22, 2018 8:53:19 GMT
Many of Lloyd Loar's later designs after he left Gibson and started Vivitone had f-holes on the back, although from what I understand the idea was that they would project the sound from a second internal soundboard. There's a bit about them here & hereThanks, very interesting second link (first only comes up with 'blank page' for me). I think I would need to listen from in front of the guitar from about 10 yards away and compare to others to see what the projection is. It may be that it sounds very good when you're on top of it but not in an audience?
I'll try that again then
|
|
|
Post by Trevor TAMCO on Jul 23, 2018 7:39:37 GMT
Check out Batson guitars. They only have a sound hole at the side.
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 23, 2018 8:14:21 GMT
I remember having a conversation in the car on the way to work years ago with a colleague who was a physics teacher. He believes there is absolutely no scientific reason why a guitar needs a sound hole. When you think about it, an f hole mandolin sounds much louder than one with an oval hole (although bracing probably has something to do with that).
Robbie
|
|
|
Post by scripsit on Jul 23, 2018 8:27:29 GMT
I think your physics colleague has it wrong.
Some of the sound that we recognise as 'guitar' comes from the plate vibration; the top and back. This why when recording you can point microphones at various parts of the guitar body (or above the shoulder of the player or whatever).
However, most of what we hear as 'the low end', also recognisably a guitar sound, comes from low-pitched 'Helmholtz' type resonance of the volume of air inside the guitar, for which there needs to be some sort of opening to the outside air.
Kym
|
|
leoroberts
C.O.G.
Posts: 24,559
My main instrument is: probably needing new strings
|
Post by leoroberts on Jul 23, 2018 8:52:29 GMT
However, most of what we hear as 'the low end', also recognisably a guitar sound, comes from low-pitched 'Helmholtz' type resonance of the volume of air inside the guitar, for which there needs to be some sort of opening to the outside air.
Kym
Makes sense... I can shout much louder than I can hum. This is why I always duct tape my victims' mouth shut...
|
|
|
Post by andyhowell on Jul 23, 2018 9:07:46 GMT
The only thing that matters? How does it sound?
|
|
|
Post by scorpiodog on Jul 23, 2018 14:41:11 GMT
I played this one at the viewing day of the Gardiner Houlgate auction in March. It wasn't very good, but that wasn't necessarily because the soundhole is in the cutaways. I have no idea about projection - it's hard to stand in front of the guitar while you are playing it! I also owned (but now ocarolan owns) a bouzouki made by a chap called Martin Edwards that had no soundhole on the front. But it was appalling for all sorts of reasons (which is why I was happy to give it away as a Friday Forum Giveaway) so I really couldn't comment on whether a front soundhole or not affects the quality of the sound. I like to see a soundhole (or f holes, or whatever)on the front. I really cant see the point of having one anywhere else.
|
|
|
Post by michaelwatts on Jul 29, 2018 13:15:12 GMT
I'm yet to find a truly convincing approach to this design with anything other than nylon strings. More often than not the result s great for the player who gets a "Dyson hand-dryer" of volume right in the face from the side ports. The audience on the other hand can be left with the impression that they're listening to a guitar behind a closed door.
The best I've heard so far (as Trevor already mentioned) were by Batson but they had the advantage of an arch top style tailpiece and bridge which led to more energy being distributed around the top than a conventional bridge.
They look cool though and if you play mostly plugged in then it's not problem whatsoever.
|
|