francis
C.O.G.
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My main instrument is: Whatever I'm building...
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Post by francis on Aug 20, 2018 20:18:25 GMT
Evening All Image shows the bridge pre saddle slot cutting with the intonation results of two different string sets. The red lines show the intonation points from a set of Elixir 12-53 PB Nanoweb's the white lines show the intonation points from a set of Newtone Heritage 12-51's. The red lines are virtually identical to other elixir strings I've put on other guitars and show what would be a two part saddle (E&B on one part, GDAE on second part). Trouble is I prefer the Newtone strings to the elixirs on this build but the position of the intonation of the low E string seems alien to me. What I don't want to do is rout the saddle slot(s) to find the Low E intonation on the Newtone is wrong. For both sets of strings the intonation has been checked with (almost) human ear and two tuners (Polytune and a Fender FCT-12 (from HB8)) Anyone else found odd string shifts like this Comments welcome
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Post by earthbalm on Aug 20, 2018 20:23:37 GMT
I've been forced to move bridge saddles on electrics before now when using different brand strings of the same gauge. Somebody on this forum will know the answer, almost certainly. Shall be following the thread with interest francis.
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davewhite
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Aemulor et ambitiosior
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Post by davewhite on Aug 20, 2018 20:34:17 GMT
Francis,
Really puzzled as to how you can get such a difference with the two unwound strings - what does Newtone do differently with those? I suspect there may be a problem with the strings and would try a few more 12's and 16's and see what you get.
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francis
C.O.G.
Posts: 2,405
My main instrument is: Whatever I'm building...
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Post by francis on Aug 20, 2018 20:40:08 GMT
Francis, Really puzzled as to how you can get such a difference with the two unwound strings - what does Newtone do differently with those? I suspect there may be a problem with the strings and would try a few more 12's and 16's and see what you get. Thanks Dave. I've ordered some Newtone masterclass sets to try. The Newtones are wound onto a round core with plain B&E the elixirs are wound on a hexagonal core with plain B&E. I was beginning to hope I might be able to make minor shifts across a straight saddle with the Newtone's until I hit the low E.
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davewhite
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Post by davewhite on Aug 20, 2018 20:49:47 GMT
Francis,
Just order a few single unwound 12's and 16's and see what results you get. If your intonation points vary a lot with these then I'd be having a look at your intonation method.
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Post by ajlucas on Aug 21, 2018 7:22:00 GMT
I would expect the bottom E to have the longest length. This string can behave in unexpected ways I think because of it's stiffness. If the ends of the string where it contacts the nut and saddle are too stiff then it stops vibrating in a pure way between those two points. Having said that you're actually getting a more expected layout pattern with the heavier bottom E. As others have said it may be an issue with this individual string. It's worth checking to see if there are any kinks in any of the strings.
The other possibility is that there may be a resonance in the guitar itself that is interfering with the resonance of the bottom string and throwing it off slightly. I don't know why it would happen with this string and not the other one though. I think Trevor Gore has something to say about this in his book. These resonances do seem to move around once the guitar is strung up and as it settles in.
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francis
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My main instrument is: Whatever I'm building...
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Post by francis on Aug 21, 2018 17:42:55 GMT
Thanks All ( earthbalm davewhite & ajlucas ) I'm awaiting some new strings to arrive so I can check if it's just that Newtone low E string at fault or something else.
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Post by vikingblues on Aug 21, 2018 19:22:00 GMT
I've not experienced intonation problems with Heritage strings and I must have used them on half a dozen different acoustic steel string guitars. But I've maybe not paid enough attention to it all.
The Heritage do differ from the "normal" sets of strings in that they are very similar tension for each of the 6 strings, instead of the usual higher tension for the strings in the middle of the guitar and lower on the outer strings. Don't know if that could affect a guitar in the way you say?
Mark
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colins
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Post by colins on Aug 21, 2018 21:59:23 GMT
Any intonation is of course just for that brand and gauge of string, and of course will differ for two different players who fret strings with varying pressure. That said the Elixir look much closer to what you would normally expect. My first inclination would be that the Newtone strings themselves may be a fault, maybe incorrect winding tension. The first thing I'd do is to check with a different Newtone string set. I have found that hex core and round core string have the greatest difference. But Dave's right the unwound string variation looks to be the main problem. Have you tried with a set of Martin or D'Adarrio? I know they seem unfashionable but I have always found them to be spot on for intonation consistency.
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francis
C.O.G.
Posts: 2,405
My main instrument is: Whatever I'm building...
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Post by francis on Aug 22, 2018 6:55:29 GMT
Any intonation is of course just for that brand and gauge of string...…. ... Have you tried with a set of Martin or D'Adarrio? I know they seem unfashionable but I have always found them to be spot on for intonation consistency. Thanks colins - Up to now I've been using Elixirs, either the 11-52 or 12-53 nanoweb strings so there was no surprise with the intonation pattern for the 12-53's. I had a set of Newtone Heritage strings and thought I would try those and I have to say I preferred the sound the Heritage strings gave the guitar. But I don't dislike the Elixirs. I have ordered more strings (Newtone Masterclass) as they're normal tension rather than low tension strings like Newtone's Heritage. So will see if I get the same problem with those. I have emailed Newtone with this query but as yet no response. Watch this space
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