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Post by Cams on Sept 26, 2018 22:23:43 GMT
I'm arranging a piano piece for fingerstyle and wondered if anyone who does this kind of thing has any tips on how to go about choosing a tuning.
The piece is in the key of G and the bass line of the piece goes down to G, so that's too floppy on a standard scale. I can go down to C, which is also a bass note of the piece.
It's an exercise I've never really done before but it's a piece of music I would dearly love to learn and I feel like it would be a really good exercise for me for all sorts of reasons.
So, arrangers who use different tunings: how do you choose one? Particularly, when you just started out arranging, how did you choose one?
The piece in question by the way is Sur le Fil by Yann Tiersen, from the Amelie soundtrack.
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Post by andyhowell on Sept 27, 2018 7:00:35 GMT
I do this a fair amount.
First off I don't reference a particular recording or piece that much. I certainly wouldn't automatically follow the original key. I tend to focus on traditional tunes more than a classical or soundtrack piece but I guess I would use a similar approach,
First off, I concentrate on the 'feel' of the piece. I will get to know it well enough to play t around my head a lot. For apiece like this you are really wanting to capture the heart and feel of the piece rather than repeat it with great accuracy. As I play around with it sometimes a particular tuning will come to the fore. Other times I will try and play it in variety of tunings and workout which sounds best and which is the easiest to play !!!
One note in a tuning can make a big difference. CGCGCD feels to me pretty up front and 'major' although it can work well for celtic pieces as well. Dropping the third string down to F gives a more neutral or slightly less in your face sound. I use this tuning more for songs than for instrumentals (where I prefer the CGCGCD tuning) but I will try both. And sometimes dropping the F just seems to work better.
Dropping the G to F gives you a tuning very similar to DADGAD but with a higher top end. It is very easy to move a tune between CGCFCD and DADGAD because of this. DADGAD takes you down the neck further while the C tuning is more compact. I find the compact tunings are better for rhythmic music. DADGAD though introduces that mystical feel you associate with some celtic music, thoughI find it works well with all kinds of stuff even the blues. Occasionally I wolfing that G sus 4 works best, though probably best not to start there at all.
So, I'm looking at the basics of the tune. I'll try different tunings in different cop positions until something sounds right to me. Then I'll go back to the original recording and try and be more analytical. This is a fascinating phase for me though as often I decide to stay with my original approach rather than move into a more accurate transcription. It is that 'feel' thetas all important.
Sometimes I can pick up a tune and think that is a DADGAD tuning but often I will experiment with a number of tunings and capo positions until I am happy.
One final thing. I tend to stick to these tunings as they are somehow more fundamental. Once you start altering them by a note here or there, or using a partial capo, I find you are getting a kind of ambient sound which depends on running up and down the strings rather than highlighting a strong tune.
Having listened to the piece on You Tube it is quite rhythmic and the attack of the piece seems very important. I'd be starting off with CGCGCD !!
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Post by RodB on Sept 27, 2018 7:11:21 GMT
Going from piano to guitar I never feel compelled to keep the original key, and at first just try playing the melody in different keys, with the aim of getting the range of the piece to fit the reduced scope of the guitar. Sometimes the tuning is suggested in this way, or by the feel of the piece. Certain characteristics of the music can also suggest where you place it and the tuning. I listened to one youtube performance of this piece and noticed there is a repeating LH piano phrase and a repeated note set above the melody that might dictate how you approach it rather than the actual bass notes as scored for the piano.
My approach is not therefore very analytical and can be a a rather progressive process of getting the feel, harmonic content and at the same time playable!
Good luck with the arranging of this - it is a nice piece of music...
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Post by lavaman on Sept 27, 2018 8:16:20 GMT
Cams, lovely tune. Just listened to a version played on the piano and another played on the violin. To me the piano version suggests standard tuning (or drop D) and the violin version suggests an open tuning to let some of the notes ring out. I'd be tempted to try it in open Dm DADFAD. Link to one of my arrangements in Dm below. My approach is similar to RodB . It's a case of noodling and finding what works. Good luck Iain
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Post by Cams on Sept 27, 2018 15:38:02 GMT
Thank you all for the wonderful feedback. I'll keep on figuring it out and let you know how I get on. I know of at least two world-class fingerstyle players who would advise learning one tuning and sticking with it (Pierre Bensusan and El McMeen) and as many others who rarely play a tune twice in the same tuning (Martin Simpson, Tony McManus). Whatever works I guess. My difficulty is, having never tried this, is that I don't yet *know* what works for me!
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Post by ocarolan on Sept 27, 2018 15:44:23 GMT
Standard tuning in Em (or Iain's DADFAD )would be my starting point. Then try higher/lower if things went haywire.
Don't feel you have to stick with "recognised" tunings. Easy enough to tweak a couple of bottom strings lower/higher, leaving the upper ones in whatever "tuning" they were.
Suck it and see is my method!
Keith
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Post by bleatoid on Sept 27, 2018 22:22:41 GMT
My approach to this kind of problem Cams would be to find someone like andyhowell who obviously knows something about the sinister world of alternate tunings and pay them hard cash to go away, sort the problem out and record the answer for me, then I'd move onto a new project in standard tuning. This alternate tunings stuff - it's not right you know. Not natural. Not that long ago people were burnt at the stake for that kind of thing.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 28, 2018 7:18:16 GMT
Interesting thread. I must admit my approach is always to try and dovetail a tune to my prefered tuning of CGCGCD. I long ago decided that that was going to be my standard tuning. Most times it works. I've not tried anything 'jazzy' with complex chords yet though. I've since discovered CGCFCD, simply because when I was arranging sleeping tune by Gordon Duncan, I needed that open F to make the lovely legato phrase in the B section work better. I've since gone on to use that tuning more, as like Andy said, it is very very similar to drop D. I've recently arranged Where the Streets Have No Name for CGCGCD, which kind of works, but mainly because the chord sequence is extremely simple. The main melody sits very comfortably on the treble strings. I also have partial capos to play with, but to be honest I have never arranged a piece with a partial capo- i find they restrict me too much. I prefer to compose originals using partials. But I like the fact that each tuning allows you to find new ways of spelling the harmony sometimes- major 7ths, suspended chords, 6ths- all become a lot easier in some of these open tunings, and is what excites me about arranging- the fact that a well known tune can take on a different landscape because of the possibilities in the harmonic choices, and in placing the melody to make use of harp like effects. Not very helpful I know Robbie
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