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Post by andyhowell on Nov 21, 2018 22:16:01 GMT
OK do I have this song I started 3 years ago. It will be a very good song when finished. Although I know How the story ends I just can’t finish the last section.
Advice please! How do I crack this self discipline thing!
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Post by bleatoid on Nov 21, 2018 22:49:29 GMT
Is the block, do you think, creative, emotional, inspirational, musical, lyrical, technical, or can you just not be arsed?
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Post by martinrowe on Nov 21, 2018 22:55:51 GMT
I'm the last person to give advice in this area but... you probably already know this but it is said that Townes Van Zandt would keep going (not stop) until the song was finished. Easier said than done but perhaps it may lead you to a similar principle that works for you.
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Post by delb0y on Nov 22, 2018 5:52:34 GMT
I recall Paul Simon once saying some songs can take years to write. I know I had to wait several years to get the last verse of one of mine. Anyway, I couldn't find the Paul Simon quote, but I did find this wonderful article from many years ago: www.paul-simon.info/PHP/showarticle.php?id=44&kategorie=1
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leoroberts
C.O.G.
Posts: 24,545
My main instrument is: probably needing new strings
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Post by leoroberts on Nov 22, 2018 6:14:25 GMT
What's holding you up? A rhyme, a line or a verse? Rhymezone is your friend for the first two... can't really help with the last one!
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Post by andyhowell on Nov 22, 2018 8:02:23 GMT
This is rather odd as I wrote that post months ago and it has only suddenly appeared. However, the song is still not finished! leoroberts it just seems to be taking ages to finish each verse. At one point I decided I didn’t like the way I was going to end the song. There’s a death. However, after listening to Lynn I realise that there’s only one death so thats fine. I only have the last bit to finish now.
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Post by bleatoid on Nov 22, 2018 10:34:13 GMT
Andy, I might be tempted to either pack it away in a mental box for a couple of months if you can, and see how it looks when you open the lid, or bounce it off someone for ideas / reaction / collaborative creative juice exchange.
(Just stay safe on that last option...)
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Post by jangarrack on Nov 22, 2018 10:55:04 GMT
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Post by curmudgeon on Nov 22, 2018 16:42:15 GMT
My Grand father on my father's side, was long a mystery. My father would NEVER talk about his past. There were rumours in the family that his father, A Swede, was killed (assassinated?) in the street during WW1, and as he was known to be a translator fluent in German, it became a possibility that he was a German spy ... or some such.
I dearly wanted to write a song about this man, but simply didn't have enough information to format the three chords, chorus and bridge that I like to put into my songs.
In a year that I've since forgotten - I attended a Sorefingers week studying songwriting with the great Darrell Scott. I got into a one to one chat with him one day and told him what I knew, and what I didn't about my grandfather.
He looked down, and laughed, and then told me about HIS song about his great grandfather : "You'll Never Leave Harlan Alive" and that much of the story was truth, but ... not all of it. He told me that after trying to find the truth, and failing he worked on those lyrics for ages, trying to keep it factual, then thought, "dammit" I'm just writing a song - doesn't matter whether it's all true or not. The song has been very successful for him.
p.s. I never did write that song about my grandfather but I did find out the truth, - he had an office in Fenchurch Street, He was a partner in a succesful translation company, and he was there on June 13th 1917, with a large number of young female typists when the Germans made their first Air raid on London using Gotha bombers and NOT Zeppelins.
One bomb fell through the roof of his building and exploded in the office sending brinks and furnture, and body parts of the youg girls down into the street.
My 6 year old father was on the pavement opposite with his mother and sister, and they saw it happen, and, , well whether or not thy saw my grandfather's remains or not was never explained but I have his death certificate and it says "death by decapitation due to a bomb dropped by enemy airmen". Of course, my father never talked about it. The terrible secret was that the old man was a rascal and my father was illegitimate.
Here's Darrell's song, and , I've just discovered , on this version he explains much of what he told me :
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Post by earthbalm on Nov 22, 2018 21:05:47 GMT
"Harlan" is a fantastic song and was a standard at the Lyceum folk club in Newport (South Wales) when I was a regular.
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Post by andyhowell on Nov 23, 2018 9:22:19 GMT
Andy, I might be tempted to either pack it away in a mental box for a couple of months if you can, and see how it looks when you open the lid, or bounce it off someone for ideas / reaction / collaborative creative juice exchange. (Just stay safe on that last option...) I know how the song ends but it just seems a pain. Every time I get some momentum another idea comes to me and I go and write that song. Basically, the last four or five songs I have posted here have been excuses not to finish the song in question :-)
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Post by andyhowell on Nov 23, 2018 9:30:01 GMT
He looked down, and laughed, and then told me about HIS song about his great grandfather : "You'll Never Leave Harlan Alive" and that much of the story was truth, but ... not all of it. He told me that after trying to find the truth, and failing he worked on those lyrics for ages, trying to keep it factual, then thought, "dammit" I'm just writing a song - doesn't matter whether it's all true or not. The song has been very successful for him. That rings very true. The story of your grandfather is fascinating but is probably a short story or novel rather than a song! I did write a song about my Grandparents a few years ago. This also came out of a song writing workshop, this time with Robb Johnson. A friend of mine organised a workshop on political song and she was badgering me to go. I'm a bit suspicious of political song not because there are lots of good ones out there but because there are loads that are crap (that was Roy Bailey's skill — picking out the good ones). Anyhow, Johnson writes simply very fine songs except that they are all political. Johnson gave us a good piece of advice. When you are trying to address an issue look to your own family. You will find acts of great courage there but often unspectacular or acts of collective courage. I thought of my grandparents who lived through two world wars, the general strike, the creation of the NHS and so on. The defining time for them really (though they wouldn't; have recognised it) was the general strike. My grandfather was a foreman but he led the lads out on strike. He was then blacklisted around the Midlands and had to move to Devon to find work. He only worked again in Birmingham when the war effort rendered him employable again! This song broadly follows their story though I've never worried about complete accuracy. The song is here:
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Post by andyhowell on Nov 23, 2018 9:37:26 GMT
"Harlan" is a fantastic song and was a standard at the Lyceum folk club in Newport (South Wales) when I was a regular. Indeed. One of my life ambitions is to see Scott live but he never comes to my part of the world. A few years ago I was in the Scottish Highlands climbing Munros with a mate who was 'bagging' them all. We were off to the Knoydart which is only accessible by boat of via a two day walk over the mountains. The village of Inverie in Knoydart has a permanent population of less than 200. We were standing at the harbour side at Mallaig waiting to take the ferry over to Inverie. I saw a little notice in the Coop window. Darrell Scott and Danny Thompson were playing at Inverie Village Hall — I didn't know there was a village hall there. I found the hall — a tiny building. Inverie has the most isolated pub in the UK (and one of the best). There were notices of the gig in the bar. I had a chat to the staff about it — was it worth going they asked? Sadly, the gig was the weekend after we had left. I was back there again five months later. In the pub Darrell Scott albums were playing on the house system. When I got back home I checked the web. Scott and Thompson were on a small tour of the Highlands but this gig wasn't listed. The place must operate as some kind of out of the way retreat I guess. Anyhow, he never comes anywhere near the West Midlands but does seem to frequent one of the most inaccessible places in the UK. I've since read that he is a keen environmentalist and lives off the grid — something that would make the Knoydart community quite interesting.
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Post by andyhowell on Nov 23, 2018 9:41:02 GMT
I recall Paul Simon once saying some songs can take years to write. I know I had to wait several years to get the last verse of one of mine. Anyway, I couldn't find the Paul Simon quote, but I did find this wonderful article from many years ago: www.paul-simon.info/PHP/showarticle.php?id=44&kategorie=1True for me as well. For a few years I had two songs knocking around that I couldn't finish. Both had tunes with chorus and middle 8's. Both had the first verse. I used to sing them at rehearsals and 'song checks'. A couple of times people asked me to finish them but I had to confess that was all there was. Then — in a very non-typical period of self discipline — I decided to finish them. I finished both songs there are then. I wasn't really happy with the lyrics which I felt were far too simple. However, as is often the way, both of these songs get people coming up and talking about them after performance !!! Grudgingly I have come to respect them. I played one last night. And it went down a storm. I'm always very surprised. Given this I can see why Paul Simon chose to produce 'Into the Blue Light', Makes sense to me.
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Post by andyhowell on Nov 23, 2018 9:51:53 GMT
It was exhausting just reading that, thought it reminds me of a story, In the 80's I was working with (mainly men) in their 50's who had become unemployed through the recession. This was a new thing. These guys simply expected to be working until they retired. Stress was a big thing and we used to look for little exercises to try with groups. One worked very well and the Dali technique reminded me of it. Basically, people were asked to close their eyes and imagine their biggest problem. Then they had to imagine a large cardboard box that had to be assembled. Then they had to mentally concentrate on putting the problem into the box and then firmly closing and sealing the box. The this was done you asked them to think of their next problem and repeated the whole thing, This may seem like crap but it did work with many people (we experimented with loads of these things), It all collapsed when one day a guy was taking it very seriously and concentrating very hard. It was clear that in his mind he was working really hard. But rather than become relaxed he became very agitated. And then he panicked. I just can't get it in the box. It's too big and too slippery and slimy. I keep trying bit I can;'t get a grip on it! He was becoming rather disturbed, That was the end of the box technique. Reading the Dali process I think I might end up in a similar state of panic !!!
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