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Post by surfguy13 on Feb 8, 2015 13:40:01 GMT
On the singles packaging it usually says 'acoustic or electric' for the unwound strings. I'd be shocked to learn otherwise than that they're the same. (I've always thought the 16 and 17 gauge unwound strings sound bad as the G string on an electric as well, I like a wound 21.) I have to say that this was my view until I compared an electric and an 'acoustic' 16 gauge string this morning and they were absolutely identical. However, it would be interesting to have a definitive answer. And yes, I always use a 20 or 21 wound G on electrics!
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Post by surfguy13 on Feb 8, 2015 12:18:46 GMT
Probably a stupid question but are standard electric Es and Bs the same as the equivalents in an acoustic set? I need a 16 gauge B string and wondered if a 16 from an electric set would be OK to use as a quick fix?
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Post by surfguy13 on Feb 6, 2015 22:44:14 GMT
I was going to chime in with exactly the same advice as Steve....Faith high gloss. Just amazing guitars for the money and those that i've tried were a dream to play and instantly comfortable. I've seen several for sale on Gumtree locally for under 400 quid with a hard case. This would get you going and you can always upgrade later?
Good luck!
Guy
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Post by surfguy13 on Feb 3, 2015 19:00:45 GMT
Thank you kindly gents!
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Post by surfguy13 on Feb 3, 2015 16:24:30 GMT
Hi Guys
Just wondering which option I choose if I wish to insert a photo into a post? Would it be IMG or Direct? This is obviously from an external web page such as Photobucket.
Many thanks
Guy
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Post by surfguy13 on Feb 1, 2015 18:55:24 GMT
Aha! Right, it didn't occur to me that they might be speech, goodness knows why. I shall go back and listen to them side by side.
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Post by surfguy13 on Feb 1, 2015 14:18:46 GMT
Andy
When I opened both links they were only about 30 seconds each and no music, just speech? Is this just me not doing the obvious or did you possibly upload the wrong links? I would be most interested to hear the two recordings side by side
Guy
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Post by surfguy13 on Jan 29, 2015 10:00:02 GMT
Reverb has its place especially, as said, Ii a reasonably flat room. Google Doug Young's You Tube tutorial - mixing acoustic guitar (a free tutorial) in effect what he does is to duplicate each of the stero tracks. He then applies two a different reverb to two of the tracks. The original tracks are set to the desired output volume. The two 'reverb' tracks start at zero and are simply increased to provide a subtle degree of reverb. In my experience this is a cracking technique which is far more subtle than messing around with the parameters of a plugin. I've used the same technique rather effectively with compression on vocals. Reverb - as with everything - deserves to be used in moderation :-) Andy, is the Doug Young Utube video 'The evolution of an acoustic guitar recording'? This one:
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Post by surfguy13 on Jan 29, 2015 9:55:40 GMT
Reverb can do wonders but at the same time as gaining that other dimension you can loose something equally important if you're not careful. I can't help you with the monitor speakers question, because it depends on how the individual devices hook together in terms of physical connectors and differing output levels. It's worth a try: most laptops have several ways of outputting an audio signal, although the normal headphones jack might be too hot for the power amplifier. This is one of the advantages of using a 'normal' recording preamp and separate microphones into your PC: the majority of preamps designed for recording give phantom power to the condenser microphones and replace the sound card in the PC you've plugged into for both recording and play back. This usually gives better recording results, but also allows you to connect monitors and headphones of various types to the output connections on the back of the preamp. I use a cheap Scarlett 2i2 and have my (powered) monitors hooked up to that. The DAW I use on my PC sucks audio in through the preamp and also plays it back through the preamp. I think Audacity can do that, too. When you deaden a room to get rid of unwanted reflections you can also kill the 'natural' reverb we hear live. You might be lucky and have a guitar which records well so as to produce a sort of inbuilt reverb, but most people add in a bit as part of the mixing process. Michael is right that the amount that is added can very quickly be obvious and unnatural. It's difficult to judge, and some of my favourite fingerstyle guitarists have put out commercial recordings where they've slipped up badly in this area (IMO). To me it's like those atrocious 80s recordings when everything had flanging on it. If you are adding reverb, a rule of thumb to keep things 'natural' is to add it bit by bit until it is just noticeable, then back it off a notch. Kym Thanks for that Kym, extremely enlightening. I guess my main concern with using a PC has been my concerns in relation to how it can be hooked up to a decent quality monitoring system. I have used the Tannoy monitors for over 30 years so I know then inside out; halthough I have an old pair of Phonic monitors which I also sometimes use, and they give me a totally different angle, the Tannoys make me feel comfortable. They are BIG drivers, 12" dual concentric, and take a fair bit of power to move them and I suppose one of the reasons I've never even tried using a PC is because I couldn't get my head around how it could be hooked up to this monitoring system.....hence the old deck and power amp. It's interesting to learn that by using a conventional condenser/preamp into a PC will potentially bypass the soundcard in the PC and allow for more conventional output connections. Another benefit of going down the stand alone preamp route. My head is buzzing with all the different options I have but it's great to be able to quietly digest it all and hopefully make the right choices. I think I will still get a zoom, if for no other reason than I am intrigued, and have been in touch with someone locally who has an 'as new' H2 for sale for £50 which seems to be not a lot of cash considering what if offers. Totally agree re reverb.....if I use it it really is only a touch and sometimes that really can make the difference. I hear far too much music that is drowned with reverb, and as Andy says, it's not just the preserve of the non-pros either. I do find that the 0 12-fret with cherry/spruce does benefit from a little reverb on occasions but rarely ever use it with the all mahogany guitar (00) as it has such a rich sound.
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Post by surfguy13 on Jan 28, 2015 22:53:45 GMT
Really enjoyed this one too. Extremely good considering that there are just 2 mikes. Both aoustics and the vocals were excellent but the bass was not quite as well catered for although that could be the rubbish speakers on my laptop!! Yes, a crisp natural sound is my prefrence too. Reverb can do wonders but at the same time as gaining that other dimension you can loose something equally important if you're not careful. I tend not to use reverb for that reason. I do use an old fender reverb tank from the early 60s when playing electric but always subtley. It offers a much warmer sound than digital reverb, to my ears anyway. Strangely i've never even thought of using it with an acoustic!
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Post by surfguy13 on Jan 28, 2015 15:07:56 GMT
You might find my recording blog on the TNAG website helpful. It shows a variety of different contexts and placements being put into action with actual live recordings have a lookHere's a recent example of a stereo pair with mail vocalist. No EQ, reverb or effects and some solo fingerstyle with pickup and mic blend Love the clips. Really nice to hear Mi'das using just the two external mikes and getting a very natural acoustic sound from the guitar. Vocals are also excellent. In contrast the Chris Woods clip is very, very different and it's fascinating to hear the two clips side by side. On the Chris Woods clip it sounds very much as if there is reverb in there (?) wheras Mi'das sounds quite dry and more natural. Also interesting to hear the soundhole pickup mixed with the signal from the mike. The recording sounds a little fuller than Mi'das' clip and maybe this is courtesy of the soundhole, I don't know. I will definitely check out the recording blog on TNAG web page and many thanks for the nod!
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Post by surfguy13 on Jan 28, 2015 14:57:06 GMT
I think you're probably right Andy but it has been a really fascinating thread and I have to say I've learned more about miking up a guitar and the options than I have speaking to people that sell the stuff. I think I may well buy a zoom regardless as they are stupidly cheap considering what you get and if I can use the mini headphone jack socket as a line out with a 1/4" jack adapter then what could be more simple? It will give me exactly what I would have with a mike/preamp/deck scenario it seems. Am I right in thinking the zoom is actually a preamp as well? If so, this negates the need for a preamp I guess. You CAN"T assume the Zoom will operate as a Preamp. Recording gain is determined by the output strength of the Mic and by the internal gain of the recording device. Your SE mic would have been fairly typical in terms of output and so we have to assume that the input circuitry of the recording machine could be better. Take out a mini jack to jack connector out of the Zoom and into the Recorder and you might simply fall foul of the same problem. I don't know enough about the volume output of the Zoom but I suspect would have the same problem. However, if you record your tracks on the Zoom and then export them (import them) into the recording machine using the USB link you are not depending on the internal preamps to set signal strength. You should be able to do this more effectively in the zoom. This was what I was hinting at earlier. So, using this system I would record my guitar pieces (and other stuff) straight into the Zoom. As Keith has said this is very quick and easy to use. When you are happy the file by USB transfer. Your volume levels will have been set digitally in the Zoom and won't have gone anywhere near the preamps. You can then edit the tracks in the recording machine. I guess you might be able to do theory tricks like duplicating the tracks and applying different levels of reverb to both — which increases stereo image and can give really good sound. Have a look around and see if there is anyone near you that has a Zoom. Go to a local store and see if they have one they can lend you for a weekend so you can try both USB transfer and recoding using a jack lead out. I think you would be unwise to assume the zoom can boost an analogue output in the way you hope — but I may be wrong. Thanks Andy.....that was the burning question; will the zoom act as an external preamp would. Now I know that this isn't the case it helps me plan what and how I take the next step. From what you have said, and indeed based on what nearly everyone has said (!!!), I should be recording straight onto the zoom and then ideally transferring onto a PC and then use Audacity to mix or, possibly, export the tracks via USB onto the deck and then use the deck instead of the PC. Great to have both options and given that Audacity is free and I already have a powerful laptop I can then experiment with both options. Interestingly, the main objective when recording isn't to come up with a polished 'finished product' but to use the process as a means of writing and putting different instruments together....such as acoustic/electric guitar and bass. I also use an external drum machine. I don't particularly enjoy the process of mixing as I find it takes me so long to 'get it right', maybe more a lack of patience (?!), but I do what I need to do to get a decent sound. Sadly our local music shop has recently closed, like so many many smaller music shops, and shops like Digital Village are just gear supermarkets these days. Fine if you know what you want.....! However, I am truly convinced that I need a zoom and will definitely buy one now in light of all the positive reviews from everyone. It looks like a perfect inexpensive option which may well offer me more than going for a condenser/preamp/deck option because it will encourage me to have a go at using it in conjunction with the PC.
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Post by surfguy13 on Jan 28, 2015 14:42:08 GMT
The simplest option of all is to buy one of the Zoom units and use it to record, with the built in microphones. Just point it at the neck join of your guitar about 300-400 mm away and hit record. Connect the Zoom to a PC with a USB cord, take the recorded WAV files off it and play them on the computer or burn them onto CD. Taking the files off the Zoom is no more complicated than copying a file from one place on your computer to another. Next step is to take the recorded WAV files off the Zoom onto your computer and open them in a simple audio program like Audacity. It's really easy to bring the volume up, add reverb and the other normal things you do when 'mixing' sound. About as complicated as formatting a paragraph of text in a word processor. With a Zoom H2n that might be as far as you would go. If you have a Zoom H5 or other model which accepts separate microphones you can plug your mic or pair of mics into the zoom and experiment with positioning. You'll probably get a better recorded sound even with cheapish condenser mics as long as they have XLR connectors. Again, you can transfer the audio files from the Zoom to your PC to do mixing/editing stuff. You'll probably notice the improvement in the raw audio you've recorded. Next, you'll probably want to make the room sound a bit better for recording. Place your chair and the microphone in the centre of the room, preferably a room with lots of soft furnishings and maybe a thick rug and curtains to cut audio reflections. This is where it can get relatively complicated and you'll need to experiment by listening back to a variety of recordings while you change things. It takes time and a few sessions. Perhaps it actually sounds better with a sheet of masonite or plywood under your chair rather than the rug which you usually use to kill boom, perhaps you need to take over the bigger sitting room for recording purposes because your bedroom is too small. You might get right into it and apply proper acoustic treatment to deaden reflections altogether, which is usually ugly and heavy 'bass traps', big lumps of insulation material, in the corners of the room, including up at the ceiling. You can record directly into the PC and Audacity using the Zoom as a preamp (the instructions for doing this are really simple). Once again, you clean up your files once you've recorded. The resulting recordings can get better and better as you come to terms with the different processes, if you can be bothered. Everyone has their own tolerance for all the necessary mucking around. However, whatever you do, the final recordings sound better when the tracking/playing is good. The mixing/editing stage is just icing on the cake, and is seriously uncomplicated if you are willing to spend about half an hour playing with the controls under 'effects' in Audacity. Kym Absolutely brilliant Kym, thanks for taking the time to run through that process for me......you have de-mystified the whole process of using a recorder like the zoom. It is clearly a great bit of kit but where it all falls down for me is using the PC. Just a mental block more than anything else as I use a laptop daily and have been using computers since they first landed! The fact that the process of recording on the zoom is so simple, and also how simple it is to dump onto the PC, makes it worthy of having a go!! I had no idea that the mixing process was straightforward on a PC, I had assumed it was extremely complex. I see that Audacity is a free download so that's brilliant and if I can then mix within that programme that's just perfect. Also wonderful to have effects in Audacity too. One question: I use an ancient pair of Tannoy Cheviots as monitor speakers and I currently go out from the deck, into a power amp and then into the Tannoys. Am I able to use the PC programme in the same way? i.e. is there a way to send the signal from the PC to the power amp and then to the speakers? Thanks also for the advice on preparing the room.....I am lucky enough to have a dedicated room for this purpose and so have it set up very much as you suggest. It's taken many years of chopping and changing to get it 'right' but I'm very happy with the sound I get both from acoustic instruments and also when miking up cabs when using electric bass and guitar.
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Post by surfguy13 on Jan 27, 2015 12:09:21 GMT
I don't think you will get away with that. If the technology worries you, you have a recording system you are comfortable with go back to the Mic idea. Or make the plunge to the PC. If you are worried stick to the easiest learning curve! I think you're probably right Andy but it has been a really fascinating thread and I have to say I've learned more about miking up a guitar and the options than I have speaking to people that sell the stuff. I think I may well buy a zoom regardless as they are stupidly cheap considering what you get and if I can use the mini headphone jack socket as a line out with a 1/4" jack adapter then what could be more simple? It will give me exactly what I would have with a mike/preamp/deck scenario it seems. Am I right in thinking the zoom is actually a preamp as well? If so, this negates the need for a preamp I guess. A
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Post by surfguy13 on Jan 26, 2015 19:33:53 GMT
Had a look at your manual, Guy - thanks for the link Much of it is gobbledegook to me too! I'm not the most tech savvy person, but it looks to me like the USB connection on your deck is there to act simply as a transfer point for wav files in and out, rather than as a record input. But, as Andy says, you could record on the Zoom and transfer the wav files from its SD card onto your deck via the USB, or onto your PC for any further stuff you want to do with them Also, you might just possibly find that you can record direct to your deck from the Zoom using the Zoom minijack headphone output (via mini to standard jack adapter) connected to a jack input on your deck. So, still some uncertainties - I wonder if anyone in your area has a Zoom you could have a play with? Maybe a plea on here somewhere (?General section?) with your approx location might get a response.... Keith Thank goodness someone else is baffled!!!! This is what I'm always afraid of when introducing new technology; irrational I know. I had hoped that I could record using the zoom and use it exactly the same way I use a condenser mike, straight into the deck and away I go. I agree that it may be possible to use the mini-jack with an adapator, which I have, to hook up the zoom to the deck and I will look into that. Going down the road of transferring Wav files from the zoom's SD card to the deck sounds like it could work but I wonder if it would mean transferring the files onto a similar storage option in the deck? If so, is the Flash card on the deck compatible? It's starting to look like the zoom may be a bit of a stretch, particularly given my lack of understanding where all things digital are concerned. I have to say that the idea of using a standard condenser into a preamp and then into the deck has great appeal due to its simplicity. Robbie asked is I have an Ipad or smartphone. I don't have a smartphone but I do have an ASUS Fonepad (K004) which is a tablet with a built in phone. Whether that's a smartphone or not I honestly don't know but I have had a quick look in the apps within Play Store and can't see anything other than pretty basic speech mikes. However, I am useless with this sort of thing so it's possible I'm just not looking in the right place! However, it would be brilliant if there was a good quality option to try as it would be brilliant to be able to use this bit of kit as an interface for recording!
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