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Post by jangarrack on Dec 19, 2018 15:20:50 GMT
slidingwolf My sentiments entirely and why I would only use a tab to get a basic idea of what is going on. Quite often I can't even approach what seems to be written on the tab, so much so to the extent that I wonder how accurate it is any way. On other occasions I have realised that the tab is not accurate at all. Back when I used to take this seriously — about several millennia ago — I learnt songs faithfully from the tab only to go and see the artist live and realise they couldn't play their own piece properly ;-) There are some people who will remain nameless (but with the initials S and G) who have rally done a lot to open up the blues to us mere mortals, however, they have often create a science out of their tabs rather than just made it clear this is all an interpretive art. I saw the light when I realised that rather than agonise how to make that chord or that stretch I could just search around the fretboard for something simpler! For my money the flow of the music is more important than the complexity of the actual notes or dots. I find this revelation very comforting and lessens the disappointment I sometimes feel in myself when I think I have cheated by changing parts of arrangements to better suit my playing ability. I've also been surprised at how inaccurate some internet sourced tab has been and more recently tab printed in some fairly expensive books. I feel better now, so thanks.
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Post by andy3sheds on Dec 19, 2018 18:01:15 GMT
I'd never connected Simon and Garfunkel with the blues before
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Post by andyhowell on Dec 19, 2018 22:50:16 GMT
I’m glad you feel better.
A couple of times of recent years I have asked could I provide a tab to one of my tunes. I’ve sat down and spent hours transcribing them and duly emailed them on.
I’ve had a very disappointed response - Surely I’ve left out some of the twiddly bits!
I think THE key to progressing with fingerstyle is to embrace simplicity. Well, that’s my line and I’m sticking to it!
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Post by lavaman on Dec 19, 2018 23:00:39 GMT
The blues is exactly the opposite. None of the old blues guys I have had the privilege to meet are remotely interested in hearing you play Blind Blake or Willie McTell note for note. "Whatever you play, make it your own. Change the key, make it minor , not major, change the words to make them your own...I want to hear how you play it, not how someone else plays it" etc. etc. And besides, most of the blues was never written down in standard notation anyway. Give yourself time. Be patient with yourself. But it really is worth stiking with it. You've hit the nail on the head. Tab is just a guide (often a poor guide as it's difficult to write down the subtleties of musical expression). Play to express, not impress. Iain
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Post by Onechordtrick on Dec 20, 2018 7:33:01 GMT
I think the use of tab depends on the experience level of the player. At the moment my aim is to make what I’m playing recognisable as the original; I lack the skill and musical knowledge to improvise and make the song my own and any perceived improvisation is in reality bad timing or playing the wrong note. One day I hope to get there but for the moment tab is a valuable tool. Of course that all falls apart when the tab doesn’t match the recording I’m trying to emulate Fortunately I have a musical son who can reassure me that I’m not going mad in my efforts to reproduce what I hear.
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Post by slidingwolf on Dec 20, 2018 11:28:47 GMT
I think the use of tab depends on the experience level of the player. At the moment my aim is to make what I’m playing recognisable as the original; I lack the skill and musical knowledge to improvise and make the song my own and any perceived improvisation is in reality bad timing or playing the wrong note. One day I hope to get there but for the moment tab is a valuable tool. Of course that all falls apart when the tab doesn’t match the recording I’m trying to emulate Fortunately I have a musical son who can reassure me that I’m not going mad in my efforts to reproduce what I hear. Fair comment. Tab is useful at the beginning when you are trying to work out what on earth is going on. But I never found it useful to learn tab like a classical piece. It makes much more sense if you understand how the alternating bass is working (or monotonic bass) and what the chord progression is rather than learn it "straight off the page" if that makes sense. Wife and daughter have much, much more musical theory than I do and it still amazes me that they are playing something very well indeed but can't tell you what key they are playing in! They are just playing the notes in front of them. With the "proper" blues guys I have had the good fortune to meet, they build it up from the rythm. So we would spend a good, solid relentless 20 mins at a time getting that down. Boom, chink, boom, chink, with the dampening off on the second and fourth. Your fingers ache, your arms ache, your back aches, but it does go in on auto pilot. And that's how you learn to sit in with other people, just doing that as accompaniment. Getting that beat right is all important. Then you put the melody, riffs etc. on top. Very different from the classical approach. My best tip is to sit on the sofa for hours on end, going through the chords, working on getting the bass lines and rythm right. And if the family aren't complaining, your not doing it enough! But if you think tab is innacurate for "normal" fingerstyle blues, you should see it for playing slide....eugh.
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Post by Janey on Dec 29, 2018 18:18:13 GMT
I just wanted to put my own twopence in here. (Not been around much and not had much to say) I agree with Slidingwolf, lavaman and andyhowell completely. I've heard people who are technically very good, some would say perfect, but to my ears their playing sounds soulless. I have heard players who are not so good but "felt" what they were playing who moved me very much. I have never for years worried about the right notes (just as well if you've heard me LOL) what it feels like seems so much more important, to me anyway. If it feels right to you its the right way to play it.
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Post by andyhowell on Jan 2, 2019 9:43:47 GMT
I just wanted to put my own twopence in here. (Not been around much and not had much to say) I agree with Slidingwolf, lavaman and andyhowell completely. I've heard people who are technically very good, some would say perfect, but to my ears their playing sounds soulless. I have heard players who are not so good but "felt" what they were playing who moved me very much. I have never for years worried about the right notes (just as well if you've heard me LOL) what it feels like seems so much more important, to me anyway. If it feels right to you its the right way to play it. Quite right. There is music and there is music!
I think many of us were educated to be in awe of classical musicians. This was proper music, after all players had studied for years and years to be able to play this stuff. But this is only one form of music.
Music should be joyful and played for pleasure and the entertainment of others. I guess most of us know that a limited technique played with enjoyment and passion is better than something studied and cold. That is not to say that classical music an not be passionate and wonderful. It often is. But it is just one form of music.
A kind of musical snobbery is difficult to shake off. My father-in-law really enjoys his music though he rarely listens to it and he tries very hard to appreciate some form of classical music because he has been told that is fine and real quality stuff. But, watch his face light up if frank Sinatra comes on. He loves that stuff but finds it hard to admit it because it isn't quality enough!
He grew up in Ireland and like so many of his generation he left to come to England to study. Ireland then, for many, was an illiberal and stifling place. I've gone back with him every couple of years for many years now. For me there is real joy in discovering the music but he is always a bit suspicious. He can just about cope with Irish Traditional music (so long as he doesn't have to listen to it that much) but anything approaching country sends him into a panic. He really can't cope with the notion he might like some of it. John Williams once told him the Country Music was really poor, bad, music and so he can't entertain it! I met John Williams once a few years ago and found him to be a right arrogant so and so. But there's no arguing that he's had a big impact on what my father-in-law considers music!
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Post by bleatoid on Jan 2, 2019 12:05:35 GMT
Interesting debate here; this my uninformed rock in the pond!
I wonder if we human beings sometimes tend to try and draw hard and fast lines between piles of "stuff" so we can feel more comfortable that it is segregated into neat, distinct piles, or sets that we can hang a unique label on.
Music is potentially any collection of noises and rhythms isn't it? (including the absence of both) In the western world the monks came up with staff notation to enable certain musical structures to be replicated quite accurately and it is true to say that music so represented has some limitations - like the ability to exactly define some "blue" notes. But that is not to say that it can't be interpreted - different conductors can present very different sounding versions of the same piece - with the same score in front of them - playing the exact same notes - whether or not they pay heed to, or identically interpret the composer's annotations. Those annotations can give a wide span for "interpretation" too. And it is always possible to, for example, get to those blue notes (with some instruments), even in a classical piece in a "western" key (eg by sliding a trombone). No reason why a symphony orchestra can't play the blues. Or Jazz. Or pretty much anything.
We can bag up stuff loosely in genres but there's a pretty big overlap between many, if not most - and thanks to the likes of Mr Simon et al, that even extends to the bridges between "Western" and "world music" these days.
Should all music be joyful? Don't think so. Should it all be played for the enjoyment of others? Not in my view. Is there music and music? Well I'm not sure there is.
But there are lots of opinions.
Peter
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Post by slidingwolf on Jan 2, 2019 16:40:26 GMT
andyhowell, when I went to senior school, I was encouraged to play an instrument. I wanted to play the guitar. Please sir I've always wanted to play the guitar,sir. Please can I play the guitar sir. That's the only instrument I've ever wanted to play sir. Please sir.
And the answer was, no you can't "because the headmaster doesn't consider it to be a proper, classical instrument." Wonder what John Williams would have to say about that......?
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