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Post by dangad on May 14, 2019 8:20:46 GMT
I've recently noticed - and now it's all I can see - that on my Martin 000ax the action increases down the neck...frets 1-5 lovely...up around 9-14 it's a vertiable canyon of wide open space...
two questions...
what's the best fix for this?
What's the cause - this is my "living room guitar" that sits out on a stand day/night
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ocarolan
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Post by ocarolan on May 14, 2019 9:22:36 GMT
Easy to leap to conclusions on this, bhere isn't a one quick fix answer. Could be any of several things, alone or in combination. The fix is most likely a simple one, but things need to be taken in the right order and there are different possibilities at each stage depending on the outcome of each investigation/intervention. So as not to complicate this post with covering all the possibilities, let's take a step by step approach to the diagnosis. First thing to do is to assess the neck relief - fret the 6th string at fret 1 and the body fret. Look for a gap beneath this string and the crown of fret 7. There should be a perceptible gap, but not a big one. You can feel this by tapping up and down over the 7th fret.Something in the region of the thickness of a top E string or slightly larger is OK. If much larger (likely) or smaller/absent, then the next step relates to adjusting the truss rod. Of which, more later, when you report back with your findings on neck relief, and I'll explain what to do. Keith If this is Greek to you, this is worth a careful read - charlestauber.com/luthier/Resources_files/BasicGuitarSetup101-Sept2018.pdf It will also take you through the subsequent steps, which may answer your question without any further assistance.) (Also, I hope you guitar is never in direct sunlight or in close proximity to a radiator or an outside wall.)
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Post by andyhowell on May 14, 2019 9:25:50 GMT
Interesting. I've also had (have) that problem with my MartinJ40. This guitar sounds lovely but the finish quality was always duff. The frets seem to have worn down faster than on my other guitars and I have the same action problem. With my guitar I cant seem to adjust this action with the truss rod and that probably means a reset. The action is not horribly bad and is OK for the top of the neck. But this sounds a similar problem.
What you really need is a luthier or decent repair guy to look at it. But I mean somebody who is good :-)
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Post by dangad on May 14, 2019 9:47:40 GMT
First thing to do is to assess the neck relief - fret the 6th string at fret 1 and the body fret. Look for a gap beneath this string and the crown of fret 7. There should be a perceptible gap, but not a big one. You can feel this by tapping up and down over the 7th fret.Something in the region of the thickness of a top E string or slightly larger is OK. Awesome, Thank you for this! I watched a few vids last night and did do this and it appeared "ok" but I will recheck looking for "thickness of a top E string or slightly larger is OK"
Yes Sir Boss...Guitar isn't in direct sunlight, near outside wall or a radiator... It is often near a two year old though!
Very happy to take to a professional but would like to understand what's happening first!
I'll double check and report back...
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Post by bellyshere on May 14, 2019 14:45:40 GMT
I always take mine to a man who knows what they are doing. Could be several things.
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Post by dangad on May 14, 2019 18:34:34 GMT
So fretted at 1st and body fret and the string is pretty much sat on 7th fret.
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ocarolan
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Post by ocarolan on May 14, 2019 19:14:57 GMT
So fretted at 1st and body fret and the string is pretty much sat on 7th fret. Sorry to seem pedantic, but do you mean actually touching, or can you hear a metallic noise when you tap the string over the 7th fret, which would indicate a minimal gap? Thanks! Keith
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Post by dangad on May 14, 2019 19:19:22 GMT
Yes sorry...a metallic sound when I tap. A very minimal gap.
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Post by ocarolan on May 14, 2019 19:31:44 GMT
Yes sorry...a metallic sound when I tap. A very minimal gap. OK, thanks. So can probably leave truss rod alone - minimal relief is OK for most people with not too heavy a touch and if the fretting is in decent nick. Next step is to measure the action at the 12th fret of top and bottom strings - place a metal rule (with zero at the end) on the fret and measure how far the string lies above it. I tend to work in mm and aim for a smidge over 2mm bottom E and a smidge under 2mm on the top E. Some would chose to go ).25 mm lower, some 0.25 mm higher. What does yours measure? (Again, the link I gave will flesh this out for you if you like!) Keith
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Post by dangad on May 14, 2019 19:37:58 GMT
We're at about 4mm for each.
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Post by ocarolan on May 14, 2019 19:48:41 GMT
We're at about 4mm for each. Oooh, deffo high. To reduce that to eg 2mm action would need them lowering by 2mm, which would mean the saddle being lowered by twice that (simple geometry). This may or may not be possible, depending on how much saddle protrudes vertically above the wooden part of the bridge. So, measure the height of exposed saddle - will removing 4mm from the base of the saddle leave enough material? Again, Charles Tauber says all this in more detail. Keith
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Post by dangad on May 14, 2019 19:55:05 GMT
Hmm...there's about 3mm of saddle above the bridge.
Really appreciate your time on this Keith.
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Post by ocarolan on May 14, 2019 20:20:08 GMT
Hmm...there's about 3mm of saddle above the bridge. Really appreciate your time on this Keith. You're welcome - though ultimately I've not been a lot of help - it looks like there is no simple fix - the saddle just doesn't have enough height to allow sufficient adjustment to get a decent action. Sadly, it's likely that more drastic attention than simple DIY adjustments can achieve. So, reluctantly, even I (who love to fettle guitars myself) have to recommend, as Andy did, that you get a proper pro opinion - but at least you now know it really is necessary. If you bought the guitar from a shop relatively recently then the shop should maybe your first port of call. Otherwise I'm sure there's no shortage of good guitar fixers in your area. Keith
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Post by Riverman on May 14, 2019 22:32:27 GMT
dangad I'm no expert, but try sighting down the neck from the headstock end, and imagine a straight edge from the fingerboard to the bridge. Ideally it should "point" more or less at the top of the bridge. If it points lower it could indicate the need for a neck reset. But there could be other issues, such as the top of the guitar swelling (perhaps because of high humidity), which could complicate the diagnosis. At which point I'd agree with Keith that an actual expert opinion is necessary. Here's something by the venerable Frank Ford on neck angles, which you might find interesting: www.frets.com/FretsPages/Musician/Guitar/Setup/NeckAngle/neckangle.html
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Post by Martin on May 15, 2019 6:12:35 GMT
I'd definitely agree with the advice to take the guitar to a skilled tech or luthier for an opinion. I lowered the action on a Furch guitar and ended up with very little saddle protruding. I visited a luthier in expectation of needing a neck reset, but it turned out he could improve the break angle of the strings behind the saddle by shaving the bridge. While some throw their hands up in horror at the thought, guitar makers don't tend to panic so much if there's sufficient material/height on the bridge itself. As has been stated, there could be a number of reasons (and fixes) for the string height issue, so there's no harm in getting an expert involved
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