stringdriventhing
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Post by stringdriventhing on Sept 9, 2020 13:51:22 GMT
The profile of the neck makes a big difference — I'm not sure how it works but two necks with the same nut width can feel very different
That's definitely true. I guess the size and shape of the neck causes your fingertips to connect with the strings at slightly different angles, which could result in unwanted string-muting. A lot of it is just what you're used to... I learned on a guitar with a 1 3/4 nut and a chunky neck and I struggle to play guitars with narrower nuts and/or slender necks.
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minorkey
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Post by minorkey on Sept 9, 2020 15:50:57 GMT
See, when I was trying to learn classical I was told to keep my thumb on the back of the neck, but when playing acoustic guitar the neck is much narrower and the thumb often sticks out like I'm thumbing a lift. I've seen some players having their thumb coming over the top of the f'board.
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stringdriventhing
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Post by stringdriventhing on Sept 9, 2020 16:02:58 GMT
See, when I was trying to learn classical I was told to keep my thumb on the back of the neck, but when playing acoustic guitar the neck is much narrower and the thumb often sticks out like I'm thumbing a lift. I've seen some players having their thumb coming over the top of the f'board.
I've never played classical, but the technique is pretty different. I tend to play with my thumb over the top and I also use my thumb to fret bass notes on the low E string a lot. It frees up a finger if you're playing blues-type stuff. I'd be taken out and shot by any reputable classical teacher
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Post by scorpiodog on Sept 10, 2020 6:14:22 GMT
I’ve only recently started fretting notes on the low E string with my thumb. On one song I needed an F# in the bass of a D chord and I couldn’t do it any other way.
But I’ve long used the thumb to mute the E and A string for rhythm guitar. It can be useful.
I took classical lessons over 50 years ago, and it took me a long time to realise that a lot of the golden rules they taught me were developed specifically for the classical guitar style of music. I still use them as a guide (left hand thumb in the middle of the neck, right thumb for E,A and D strings etc) but for other styles, other techniques are as good if not better.
But remember, the thumb in the middle of the neck, if combined with positioning the guitar in the classical manner, brings your fingers onto the fingerboard perpendicularly, and this has some bearing on your nut width issue.
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Post by fatfingerjohn on Sept 10, 2020 6:47:29 GMT
I’ve only recently started fretting notes on the low E string with my thumb. On one song I needed an F# in the bass of a D chord and I couldn’t do it any other way. This is very similar to me and again is a reflection of my relatively short fingers and lack of stretch. It emphasises my view that the nut width and string spacing is only one of the two main components of what I look for, the other being the neck profile. I've tried guitars with a thicker/different shape neck where I cannot reach round with my thumb to fret the bottom E string. This is even more true if, like me, you cannot play a barre chord to save your life (because your fingers/wrists just won't allow it) where, to be able to fret the bottom string with the thumb, is quite important. I regularly use the F# in the bass of a D chord and also run down to the F on some. I can only just manage it with the thumb on my low profile necks and it took a lot of perseverance to get there with my short thumb.
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Post by vikingblues on Sept 12, 2020 9:35:08 GMT
Trouble is there's no one measurement for any bit of the guitar that you can use to know if it will be right for you. I remember when I first started the guitar buying process fuelled by insistent GAS attacks - I had a list of ideal specifications. Over the course of time in trying out more and more guitars I ended up having to give up on the list. Nut width, string spacing and neck profile all combine to make it right or not. Change one of those factors and it may still be OK but it might not be. Not to mention the huge bearing the size of your hand - length and width of fingers, hand-span etc. One man's ideal string width is another's ticket to joint pain. I guess the neck profile has an influence on wrist position / wrist and hand profile - that affects comfort and also the angle that your fingers meet the fretboard at. String spacing seems to be at least as important as nut width and it's so rarely mentioned in guitar specs and reviews. Same with guitar body size, where you have depth to take into account and, if you plan on playing seated (not a bad idea if you're a bit on the side), the waist size of the guitar body is also hugely important as it can make or break a comfortable playing position regardless of the other body measurements. Mark
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Post by Matt Milton on Sept 14, 2020 13:57:28 GMT
Nut width makes a tremendous difference for me and it's probably the biggest factor in terms of whether I'll enjoy playing a guitar or not. I hear what people are saying when they say string spacing at the nut is important, but it's no coincidence that guitars with wider nuts invariably have wider string spacing: that's why there's a wider nut. It stands to reason that if you have a 46mm nut you can get wider string spacing at the nut end of the fretboard than if you have only a 43mm nut width. I have 4 acoustic guitars (3 made by Recording King and 1 by Harley Benton) and all of them have a nut width of between 44.5mm to 46mm. I find I need a slightly chunkier neck profile too. I ordered two Harley Benton guitars, both with 45mm nut widths and identical string spacing. But the one with the chunkier neck instantly felt like it had wider string spacing, no idea why that was. I just couldn't deal with the one with the slim neck so it went back to the shop. Having said all that, I've been playing my electric Squier Jagmaster a lot recently, unplugged, late at night: and that's got only a 43mm nut - maybe even a 42mm, not sure! I've gotten used to it, but it's not ideal. Every so often I take a peek at this cheap and cheerful thing: www.gear4music.com/Guitar-and-Bass/Hartwood-Novella-Hollowbody-Guitar-Tobacco-Sunburst/2C5TA bottom of the range jazz box with a 44.5mm nut width. A very tempting use of £220. Might take the plunge.
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Post by scorpiodog on Sept 14, 2020 17:41:25 GMT
I think you also should to know the difference between length and width Forgive me for asking, @kimimies , but this seems a rather odd first post on the forum. I, for one, would appreciate a little clarification about what exactly you mean.
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Post by vikingblues on Sept 14, 2020 18:46:12 GMT
With my 4 acoustics I have two not widths of 45mm and two of 43mm. But for string spacing it is 3 at 37mm and one at 35mm - the two at 43mm nut width having differing 37mm and 35mm on string spacing. So in one case the narrower nut width does not lead to a narrower string spacing. As it happens the one with the wide string spacing and the narrower nut width is the best for chord work.
Agreed yes - the nut width usually is a good guide - but my thought is not to exclude the narrower nut width automatically when looking for a guitar.
Mark
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Post by martinrowe on Sept 14, 2020 19:48:37 GMT
With the Mandolin (and Violin I think) you play more with the pads of the fingers as the neck is narrower. At the moment I'm really enjoying trying to get the optimum tone out of the instrument. For me this means trying to play with more of the pad of the finger, fingers as close to the fret wire as is possible, and pressing as lightly as possible (is this what they mean by a good touch), apparently pressing too hard puts the instrument out of tune a little bit. I'm finding it surprising how much the sound changes when playing around with these variables. I suppose this may mean that technique on a musical instrument is determined by the instrument's dimensions. So a narrow nut possibly needs a slightly different technique. Some would argue that the fretting hand technique for a mandolin (especially using the thumb as a pivot point) is very different from the fretting hand technique for a guitar. Fun this trying to play a musical instrument game isn't it. Time for some food - I'll stop rambling now. 1 inch = 25.4mm, just saying.
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Post by scorpiodog on Sept 15, 2020 6:31:59 GMT
Ah, I think I see. So you’re suggesting it should be nut length, are you? If we were talking about the nut in isolation I guess you’d have a point. But we aren’t. We’re talking about it as a part of the guitar, in fact, more precisely, part of the neck. Taking the definition in your link, the longest measurement of the neck is its length, the nut lies perpendicular to that. Thus we have the expression nut width. It’s always done that way. We all knew what minorkey was saying, and we would have put it the same way. Do you play an instrument at all, @kimimies? If so, why don’t you tell us all a little about it and yourself in the Introduce Yourself section of this forum. We’d like to meet you properly, you see.
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minorkey
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Post by minorkey on Sept 15, 2020 9:02:57 GMT
I think you also should to know the difference between length and width Scratches head...
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Post by alexkirtley on Sept 16, 2020 23:42:01 GMT
I like 'em skinny, my favourite neck is on the late 60's gibsons, 42mm nut width
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Post by earthbalm on Sept 17, 2020 14:24:30 GMT
alexkirtley I own a very early 70s Shaftesbury Barney Kessel copy, Japanese made. By my measuring it has a nut width between 41mm and 42mm. I find it almost unplayable.
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colins
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Post by colins on Sept 17, 2020 15:42:46 GMT
I had so many people say to me that they couldn't play on a guitar with a nut wider than say 43-44mm, then when they get it they stick a capo on the 5th and play quite happily. Go figure.
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