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Post by andyhowell on Jul 13, 2021 15:47:40 GMT
Inspired by grayn 's recent post I found a decent chunk of time today to use to visit BVirmingham's Guitar Guitar and check these out.
The 'Inspired by Gibson' guitars are all made of solid woods in Epiphone's Malaysian production facility. Currently there is a J200 clone, A Hummingbird Clone and two 'J45's' in the collection, one a cutaway.
The store was quiet and the acoustic guy grateful for some company. He told me the "inspired' line was flying off the shelves. They had sold out but then he managed to find a J45 custom and I sat down to play.
The guitar has a very decent finish, a wonderful sunburst, rosewood fingerboard and a built-in Fishman system and preamp which I was told was pretty decent. The only thing I didn't like were the machine tuners but then I don't like these on Gibsons either. The guitar was somewhere around £600.
When I strummed the guitar I almost fell off my chair. This was a big sound and it seemed more dynamic than a J45. The balance across the strings was excellent and it was loud! I played it in folk and country styles and in country blues/ragtime. The more that I played it the more I recognised that it was part of the J45 family. I worked out that the initial sound I heard was really that this was a spanking new guitar with no playing in at all. However, I reckon that over a couple of months this would open up wonderfully. Out of curiosity I put the guitar into DADGAD, not something I usually associate a J45 with — ti more than adequately held its own.
Playability might be an issue for some as this has a big, chunky, traditional neck which gives a lot of space for the fingers up around the nut. It is not for everyopne but then I guess most J45 players don't go much below the 5th fret.
If this is what your budget can stand don't hesitate to check these out as they are phenomonal guitars even before you consider the price. If you are a J45 owner who plays live this might make for a good stage substitute.
My only issue with it was that the action was too high for me but a good setup is always recomended and will see you alright. There is nothing to dislike with this guitar at twice the price.
It was still quiet so the sales guy suggested I try out the Masterbuilt Texan. This is J45 with an Epiphone headstock and logo on the pickguard. These are built in the Montana factory. Again the finish was superb. The neck was a litte slimmer than the Asian guitar. The sound was a little more mature but I suspect this is to do with production and that this difference would quickly disappear. It comes in at £2.5K and is every bit a J45. If you fancy yourself as more a Wizz Jones than a Ralph Mctell (well somebody must) this may well be the guitar for you. Was this £2K better a guitar? No, not really.
The sales guy was keen for me to try other guitars, particularly a Martin 0-15 (all Mahogany) instrument. Apparently they can only get these now as a custom order. It cost £1500. Apoogies for anyone who has one of these but this one was shit! Compare this bling to an 'inspired' guitar and I reckon there would only be one result. A 000-15 didn't move me either. A small bodied Lowden — all Walnut S — was a far better guitar of this type but then it should be at £7K.
Like Cormier I am a bit stumped by what Gibson are doing but then in the USA 'Made in the USA' carries with it a real premium. And as leoroberts wpuld say it has to have Gibson on the headstock, understandable given the history and culture of this guitar. But if £600-700 is your price range there is no need to feel in anyway inferior!
I also bought a few packets of the new D'Adarrio X strings and will report back.
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Post by grayn on Jul 13, 2021 18:46:31 GMT
Thanks Andy, good write up. A lot of the Masterbilts are made in Indonesia and are in the same price range as the ispired models. For some reason I've taken a fancy to the Epi Excellente, which I'd have poo pooed a few years back, as being to "country". I'm hoping to check out some inspireds and actual Gibbos, in the near future. Cheers
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Post by oustudent on Jul 13, 2021 20:38:45 GMT
Owning a Gibson has always been on my want list but never found one that sounded right. Tried a few original Gibson against Epiphone in Dawsons a few years back and could hardly tell the difference. Neither said get the card out and take me home.
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Post by grayn on Jul 14, 2021 5:23:45 GMT
Owning a Gibson has always been on my want list but never found one that sounded right. Tried a few original Gibson against Epiphone in Dawsons a few years back and could hardly tell the difference. Neither said get the card out and take me home. The only Gibsons I have played much, were a J15, that I owned a while back, that was an excellent Spruce/Walnut guitar and a Robert Johnson model that was truly great. I suspect, like many Gibson electrics, you have to play a lot to find a really good one.
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Martin
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Post by Martin on Jul 14, 2021 6:58:33 GMT
A good few Gibsons have passed through my hands over recent years and most have been very good and one of them truly outstanding (Hummingbird Vintage), but I'd like to try the new Epiphone range to see how good they are. I did have an Epiphone Masterbilt 12-fret monster of a guitar last year that I actually moved on because it was just too much - ultra-resonant, just overpowering, but an incredible light build.
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Post by andyhowell on Jul 14, 2021 7:46:04 GMT
The 'Inspired by' were stunning value for money I thought the Masterbuilt less so. For the Masterbuilt prices you might be better advised to add a few hundred quid and go for a stock Brook or Fylde — you will certainly get more guitar for your money.
I do wonder where all this will take us. The sales guy also talked to me about the E335. He felt that the Epiphone version had always been way sbort of the Gibson but that over the last year the standard of these had soared as well to the point that the choice was really difficult now.
Gibson acoustics can be vry frustrating and I think they are often bought for all kinds of sentimental reasons rather than just sound. Currently the standard, true vintage and custom ranges all have different neck profiles which drives me mad — I will like the sound of one but the nexk of another! But a great J45 is for me a thing of wonder — I don't own one mainly because they are not that versatile.
Grayn's experiences shadow mine. The very best Gibson I have played over the last decade was a Robert Johnson small bodied guitar — I really wish I'd bought it. After playing it Ralph Mctell told me he had one and that it was his best recording guitar! As always happens, this seems to have been discontinued now. The other one that really stands out was an terrific Advanced Jumbo I found in Wunjo's which was stuck in a corner collecting dust and which — compared to their J45 and J50's — was underpriced. Other than that I've played a number of J35 and J15s recently which I think are far more consistent and great value for money.
Just to through another stick in the wheel, the best sounding J45-style guitar I have played over recent years was by Atkin from the south of England.
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Post by vikingblues on Jul 16, 2021 16:25:21 GMT
If Birmingham's GuitarGuitar uses the same policy as the Edinburgh store does (or did a couple of years ago anyway) I'm not surprised the action was high. I got it confirmed to me at the Edinburgh store that if a guitar is "playable" out of the box they don't do anything to it. Contrast Scayles (now changed hands due to retirement sadly) who set up every guitar put out on the shelves so that they were very playable. I never had the experience there of being unsure if a guitar was not for me because of the poor setup, or dead strings. Great story of your visit Andy and you underline perfectly how it's a great help to try before you buy, and that expectations don;t always align with reality. Thanks for posting. Mark
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Post by surfguy13 on Jul 19, 2021 6:52:06 GMT
I also found Andy's post fascinating. I think most people are slightly suspicious of anything manufactured in the far east, me included, and yet more and more I am hearing about some really excellent solid wood guitars at very reasonable prices. I did try a rosewood/spruce Faith 12-fret a couple of years ago based on some very positive reviews and I was massively underwhelmed. Very poor instrument. Having said that I saw Onechordtrick has a Faith Lyra in the classifieds and that really does look like a beautifully made guitar so maybe I was unlucky with the 12-fret! These inspired by Epiphones have the resources of a big company behind them and it sounds as if they have managed to find that happy medium of a solid wood guitar at a great price. And £600'ish is a great price. It's a shame they only do the J200, Hummingbird and J45s as, if they had done a OOO or a OO even I would have been very tempted!
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Post by Martin on Jul 19, 2021 7:15:37 GMT
Well, coincidentally a nearly new Inspired by Gibson J45 came up for sale near me at the weekend. Since I’ve been downsizing recently I thought I could justify an experiment so I bought it.
First impressions were not bad but it had new strings and wasn’t tuned properly. The owner insisted on tuning it himself si I persevered.
Once i got it home, tuned and retuned it, thrashed it and tweaked the truss rod (there was nearly no relief), I left it for a few hours.
When I next played it I was really impressed. Beautiful neck, lovely semi satin like gloss finish and very easy playability due to the short scale and 12” fingerboard radius.
The sound is also pleasing. A bit of Gibson thump but with a certain shimmer as well. I compared it to a friends J45s on Saturday and it stands up very well and shares a lot of the same qualities.
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Post by andyhowell on Jul 19, 2021 7:59:32 GMT
Well, coincidentally a nearly new Inspired by Gibson J45 came up for sale near me at the weekend. Since I’ve been downsizing recently I thought I could justify an experiment so I bought it. First impressions were not bad but it had new strings and wasn’t tuned properly. The owner insisted on tuning it himself si I persevered. Once i got it home, tuned and retuned it, thrashed it and tweaked the truss rod (there was nearly no relief), I left it for a few hours. When I next played it I was really impressed. Beautiful neck, lovely semi satin like gloss finish and very easy playability due to the short scale and 12” fingerboard radius. The sound is also pleasing. A bit of Gibson thump but with a certain shimmer as well. I compared it to a friends J45s on Saturday and it stands up very well and shares a lot of the same qualities. It's certainly not bad for the price!
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Post by surfguy13 on Jul 19, 2021 8:32:34 GMT
Well, coincidentally a nearly new Inspired by Gibson J45 came up for sale near me at the weekend. Since I’ve been downsizing recently I thought I could justify an experiment so I bought it. First impressions were not bad but it had new strings and wasn’t tuned properly. The owner insisted on tuning it himself si I persevered. Once i got it home, tuned and retuned it, thrashed it and tweaked the truss rod (there was nearly no relief), I left it for a few hours. When I next played it I was really impressed. Beautiful neck, lovely semi satin like gloss finish and very easy playability due to the short scale and 12” fingerboard radius. The sound is also pleasing. A bit of Gibson thump but with a certain shimmer as well. I compared it to a friends J45s on Saturday and it stands up very well and shares a lot of the same qualities. That sounds amazing Martin, hope it continues to impress. If it was comparable to a Gibson J45 then that is quite extraordinary. I'd be interested to know if the Gibson J45 has a 12" radius as it's my preference for an acoustic. I find a 16" radius just a little too flat. Did it come with a pickup fitted perchance? Maybe a bit much to ask given the price.
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Post by Onechordtrick on Jul 19, 2021 9:08:11 GMT
I also found Andy's post fascinating. I think most people are slightly suspicious of anything manufactured in the far east, me included, and yet more and more I am hearing about some really excellent solid wood guitars at very reasonable prices. I did try a rosewood/spruce Faith 12-fret a couple of years ago based on some very positive reviews and I was massively underwhelmed. Very poor instrument. Having said that I saw Onechordtrick has a Faith Lyra in the classifieds and that really does look like a beautifully made guitar so maybe I was unlucky with the 12-fret! These inspired by Epiphones have the resources of a big company behind them and it sounds as if they have managed to find that happy medium of a solid wood guitar at a great price. And £600'ish is a great price. It's a shame they only do the J200, Hummingbird and J45s as, if they had done a OOO or a OO even I would have been very tempted! I think it's unwise to generalise about "Far Eastern" (or anywhere else for that matter) guitars. You can buy a Chinese made Martin Smith complete with stand, gig-bag, tuner, etc. for less than £60 from Amazon which I imagine be case of "you get what you pay for". But you can also buy higher quality/more expensive instruments for manufacturers such as Yamaha, Ibanez and, of course, Faith . Most of these may be machine made or use CNC but that's probably true for US made Martins as well. I've had 2 Faiths and have been impressed by the build quality and value for money, not everyone likes the sound, but that's also true of most established brans.
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Post by curmudgeon on Jul 19, 2021 10:22:54 GMT
Unless they start making a properly spec'd L-0/1 or Roy Smeck or archtop L-3 or L-5, with the original neck widths, I'll stick.
Talking about Far Eastern makes, I've run an acoustic music club from 2006 until the first Lockdown and noticed improving instruments arriving, Faith have impressed, but mostly Eastman, so much so that I bought an Eastman E20-P in 2020, and an E40-00 n 2021
Can't put 'em down - presented as well or better than Martin, beautiful woods, bright, full tonality out of the (very nice) cases, and I'm a Collings player!
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Post by andyhowell on Jul 19, 2021 12:04:10 GMT
Unless they start making a properly spec'd L-0/1 or Roy Smeck or archtop L-3 or L-5, with the original neck widths, I'll stick. Talking about Far Eastern makes, I've run an acoustic music club from 2006 until the first Lockdown and noticed improving instruments arriving, Faith have impressed, but mostly Eastman, so much so that I bought an Eastman E20-P in 2020, and an E40-00 n 2021 Can't put 'em down - presented as well or better than Martin, beautiful woods, bright, full tonality out of the (very nice) cases, and I'm a Collings player! Yep — perhaps we shouldn't be surprised! First they iunderstood construction and now tone. Mind you, Yamaha and yari and always been good and those Eastmans hve always impressed me.
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Post by surfguy13 on Jul 20, 2021 8:39:35 GMT
I also found Andy's post fascinating. I think most people are slightly suspicious of anything manufactured in the far east, me included, and yet more and more I am hearing about some really excellent solid wood guitars at very reasonable prices. I did try a rosewood/spruce Faith 12-fret a couple of years ago based on some very positive reviews and I was massively underwhelmed. Very poor instrument. Having said that I saw Onechordtrick has a Faith Lyra in the classifieds and that really does look like a beautifully made guitar so maybe I was unlucky with the 12-fret! These inspired by Epiphones have the resources of a big company behind them and it sounds as if they have managed to find that happy medium of a solid wood guitar at a great price. And £600'ish is a great price. It's a shame they only do the J200, Hummingbird and J45s as, if they had done a OOO or a OO even I would have been very tempted! I think it's unwise to generalise about "Far Eastern" (or anywhere else for that matter) guitars. You can buy a Chinese made Martin Smith complete with stand, gig-bag, tuner, etc. for less than £60 from Amazon which I imagine be case of "you get what you pay for". But you can also buy higher quality/more expensive instruments for manufacturers such as Yamaha, Ibanez and, of course, Faith . Most of these may be machine made or use CNC but that's probably true for US made Martins as well. I've had 2 Faiths and have been impressed by the build quality and value for money, not everyone likes the sound, but that's also true of most established brans. I was generalising about far eastern brands in as much as there are so many countries in the far east that now produce guitars and basses. However, I was not using the term 'far eastern' in any sort of derogatory way, quite the reverse; I was trying to say that people have historically been put off far eastern brands due to the wide use of laminates and, in some cases poor quality control. It is fast becoming clear that many manufacturers, such as Faith and Epiphone, are building really high quality guitars using solids woods at an incredibly low price point. Attitudes are clearly changing and that can only be a good thing. We now have brands like Eastman from China who have been making incredibly high quality handmade guitars, cellos and violins since 1994. I bought an Eastman jazz guitar back in the early 2000s and it blew my mind. Hand carved, superb finish and exceptional woods, just a fantastic all-round guitar. My luthier couldn't believe it was a sub £1000 guitar. I haven't played an Eastman acoustic yet but as curmudgeon says, they are built as well as an equivalent Martin and that doesn't surprise me at all.
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