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Post by ukpacker on Apr 8, 2024 7:40:39 GMT
I am wondering what's the time signature of these versions of Lowlands of Holland? Are they both using the same rhythm? I find it difficult to tell. How do you work it out? Thanks for any insights.
Martin Simpson
Natalie Merchant & Chieftans
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ocarolan
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Post by ocarolan on Apr 8, 2024 8:50:22 GMT
ukpacker - The Natalie Merchant one is mostly in 4/4 but the first two bars of each verse are in 6/4 The first recording is in Simpson time! I think it's basically 4/4, but with lots of Simpsonesque twiddles and rubato so I couldn't count it like I could the NM version. I believe the tune is old enough to be part of the oral tradition, where anyone would sing it with their own expression and timing - ie very freely! Hence modern attempts to squish it into something that modern ears expect to hear can meet with varying degrees of success and differing results. The song has been recorded by loads of different people - when i get time I'll check out some more of them... Keith
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Post by ukpacker on Apr 8, 2024 17:38:21 GMT
Thanks for taking the time to check that out for me.
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Post by RodB on Apr 8, 2024 18:25:10 GMT
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Post by ukpacker on Apr 8, 2024 18:38:44 GMT
Oh that's great thanks, mystery solved ie there never was a mystery, just my bent ear!
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Post by Vinny on Apr 8, 2024 19:08:49 GMT
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Post by ocarolan on Apr 8, 2024 20:44:22 GMT
Oh that's great thanks, mystery solved ie there never was a mystery, just my bent ear! Not your bent ear at all - Mr Simpson's unique style - he's certainly not playing it as regularly as the TAB would like to have you believe. He's playing it far more freely - as indeed suits the melody, espeecially when without words. Unaccompanied solo singing can work similarly, but once you put voice and accompaniment together there's usually some need for more rationalisation in timing - as per most sung versions. Though I did like the NM version with extra beats in the first two bars, after which it became more regular. Keith
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Post by ocarolan on Apr 8, 2024 20:53:21 GMT
That was wonderful Vinny - thanks for posting! Keith
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Post by martinrowe on Apr 8, 2024 21:52:28 GMT
Really enjoyed that. Many thanks Martin
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Post by ukpacker on Apr 9, 2024 9:15:49 GMT
Oh that's great thanks, mystery solved ie there never was a mystery, just my bent ear! Not your bent ear at all - Mr Simpson's unique style - he's certainly not playing it as regularly as the TAB would like to have you believe. He's playing it far more freely - as indeed suits the melody, espeecially when without words. Unaccompanied solo singing can work similarly, but once you put voice and accompaniment together there's usually some need for more rationalisation in timing - as per most sung versions. Though I did like the NM version with extra beats in the first two bars, after which it became more regular. Keith Thanks, I had my suspicions as Martin Simpsons version seems impossible to march to without tripping over feet. Listening to NM's version in the light of what you wrote I think that she's throwing in rest beats where she delays singing the lyric as in " On the night that I was---mareed" but listening to the penny whistle solo melody it's quite regular without those pauses, she also seems to slow down a bit toward the end of the verse.
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Post by RodB on Apr 9, 2024 11:10:40 GMT
I would say there is no added rest in there. She just waits till the 2nd beat of the bar to sing the word ‘married’., so the 4/4 timing is still maintained
Going back to your original post, my suggestion is to ignore the words and just count out loud as you listen. First try and locate the emphasis of the 1st beat in the bar(s). I make out that the 1st whole bar starts with the word ‘night’.
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Post by ukpacker on Apr 10, 2024 11:04:51 GMT
I would say there is no added rest in there. She just waits till the 2nd beat of the bar to sing the word ‘married’., so the 4/4 timing is still maintained Going back to your original post, my suggestion is to ignore the words and just count out loud as you listen. First try and locate the emphasis of the 1st beat in the bar(s). I make out that the 1st whole bar starts with the word ‘night’. Working out this sort of thing confuses me no end, so do you think there is a difference in the time signature of the melody Natalie Merchant is singing and that of the penny whistle solo before the last verse?
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Post by RodB on Apr 10, 2024 11:37:04 GMT
]Working out this sort of thing confuses me no end, so do you think there is a difference in the time signature of the melody Natalie Merchant is singing and that of the penny whistle solo before the last verse? No, I don't think so.. If I start the count 1,2,3,4,1,2,... etc from the word 'night' as noted above, I am in sync right up to when the music slows for the last line of the song.
Later in the song she does tend to sing more off beat - that is why I recommend to just keep the count going out load without trying to follow the words. The backing bass and guitar is useful as this never falters but does vary in emphasis in that whistle section. This and the off-beat singing might be distracting your count...
Keep trying this and you will be singing it in your sleep
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Post by Onechordtrick on Apr 11, 2024 8:15:26 GMT
Thanks plenty to explore there, and the tunes are available on iTunes. And maybe other music streaming services?
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Post by ukpacker on Apr 11, 2024 21:23:55 GMT
]Working out this sort of thing confuses me no end, so do you think there is a difference in the time signature of the melody Natalie Merchant is singing and that of the penny whistle solo before the last verse? No, I don't think so.. If I start the count 1,2,3,4,1,2,... etc from the word 'night' as noted above, I am in sync right up to when the music slows for the last line of the song.
Later in the song she does tend to sing more off beat - that is why I recommend to just keep the count going out load without trying to follow the words. The backing bass and guitar is useful as this never falters but does vary in emphasis in that whistle section. This and the off-beat singing might be distracting your count...
Keep trying this and you will be singing it in your sleep Thanks, in my case singing in my sleep is probably the best place for it to stay. Here's my solo guitar effort Apologies for the recording quality , I have no idea how to make it sound even half way decent but but hopefully you get the idea. soundcloud.com/user-464119483/lowlands-of-holland?si=816e9be07038473fba47821a858d10db&utm_source=clipboard&utm_medium=text&utm_campaign=social_sharing
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