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Post by melodeous on Mar 11, 2014 1:58:52 GMT
I had one spec'd out, waited the obligatory 2 years, finally received it and then parted with it almost immediately. Now, if I can't hear it I won't buy it. All my unseen purchases are gone, come to think of it.
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Post by marcus on Mar 11, 2014 4:40:34 GMT
Sorry to hear that it didn't work out for your melodeous. Was it the tone that didn't work for you or something else?
I've bought and sold a few guitars sight-unseen. Mostly the reason I sold them was ergonomics rather than tone... or else because I didn't really need more than one guitar (see the classifieds for case in point!).
With your last purchase, had you tried guitars by that builder before you ordered and, if so, was what you received very different to what you expected?
Sounds like you've got the solution... playing before buying. Sometimes that can be a bit tough though depending on where you live and what's available locally.
All the best, marcus
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Post by melodeous on Mar 13, 2014 1:35:33 GMT
It was the tone. The guitar was a very nice build and comparable in construction and playability to the best I've seen. But, I'm after tone and this particular guitar didn't get my ear. So, it had to go. If I don't play them off they go. I gave it to an under privileged 15 year old, who most assuredly enjoyed it more than I, under a long term loan agreement where he was to keep it in good condition.
I play one steel string acoustic guitar at the moment and have been for a few years now. I don't anticipate adding another.
While I would like to support the private builder my tone-persnickety rule prevents me from commissioning a build. The guitar I play now was a 600 road trip to check it out in person so I'm not opposed to making that kind of effort.
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Post by clydeslide on Mar 13, 2014 11:10:15 GMT
It was the tone. The guitar was a very nice build and comparable in construction and playability to the best I've seen. But, I'm after tone and this particular guitar didn't get my ear. So, it had to go. If I don't play them off they go. I gave it to an under privileged 15 year old, who most assuredly enjoyed it more than I, under a long term loan agreement where he was to keep it in good condition. I play one steel string acoustic guitar at the moment and have been for a few years now. I don't anticipate adding another. While I would like to support the private builder my tone-persnickety rule prevents me from commissioning a build. The guitar I play now was a 600 road trip to check it out in person so I'm not opposed to making that kind of effort. Did you play guitars by the builder you selected beforehand? |
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Post by melodeous on Mar 14, 2014 0:17:44 GMT
No I didn't. I chose him because he came recommended as one of the better small builders who put out some quality work.
I have since seen many examples put out by many small builders yet there are precious few testimonials of the tone of their guitars. Craftsmanship is superb but otherwise they don't have a notable aural showing. Crafting a good soundbox takes a lot more than aesthetically superb know-how.
I don't have any remorse or harbor ill feelings for the less than stellar sound of the guitar I commissioned. It was a crapshoot and I knew it going in. At the time I had a very nice Breedlove cedar/rosewood concert size and a Goodall RCJC so it wasn't like I needed a guitar. I still have the Goodall while the Breedlove is on loan to a friend. I commissioned the build because it was one of those bucket list things I wanted to do - like bungie jumping - and went with it.
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Post by vikingblues on Mar 14, 2014 8:17:55 GMT
Shame it didn't work out Melodeous.  But there's some things you can only find out if they work for you by trying them - and as you say some things that one wants to try at least once. Although it at least gives me some good indications, I've found from (sometimes bitter  ) experience that trying before buying is no guarantee for me either I'm afraid. I need to live with the sound and feel of a guitar for at least a few months to know if it's a correct choice. Which given the instant depreciation on a new guitar as soon as it's bought is a bugger. The fact that my tastes (and hearing) gradually change and sometimes do so suddenly doesn't help either - I have had a guitar that went from being my pride and joy and favourite for tone for quite some time to one that I couldn't bear to listen to in less than 6 months. I don't know if I'll ever have the nerve to try getting a build made for me. Apart from the leap of faith, I'm not sure I know what it is that makes a particular guitar work for me - that wouldn't help the poor sod trying to build the thing!   Mark |
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Post by Phil Taylor on Mar 14, 2014 17:46:30 GMT
It was the tone. The guitar was a very nice build and comparable in construction and playability to the best I've seen. But, I'm after tone and this particular guitar didn't get my ear. So, it had to go. If I don't play them off they go. I gave it to an under privileged 15 year old, who most assuredly enjoyed it more than I, under a long term loan agreement where he was to keep it in good condition. I play one steel string acoustic guitar at the moment and have been for a few years now. I don't anticipate adding another. While I would like to support the private builder my tone-persnickety rule prevents me from commissioning a build. The guitar I play now was a 600 road trip to check it out in person so I'm not opposed to making that kind of effort. I used to be like that about tone and whenever I had more than one guitar I was always comparing them - there was just one tone I 'thought' was the one and therefore I was never satisfied. The problem is, as you clearly know from your experiences, all acoustic guitars sound different and obviously some just sound crap. I have now learned, if that's the right word, to appreciate this and in turn like the sound of many acoustic guitars and just think of them as different sounding. Having said that there are still many that I favour least. Anyway, it is a shame it did not work out for you Melodious but until you try a 'private builder' you don't know. Cheers |
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Post by melodeous on Mar 15, 2014 14:50:03 GMT
You can't spec sound by spec'ing materials and a specific builder. You don't know exactly what you're wanting to hear. If you did you wouldn't be commissioning a build for it because it would already be in your possession in another guitar. You may think you know what you want to hear but, being honest with yourself, you don't. You can, however, gamble on it and accept or reject what you do get.
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garynava
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Post by garynava on Mar 15, 2014 17:23:07 GMT
Did you contact the luthier in question and ask his advice? A handmade guitar will change and hopefully "improve" considerably during its first year.
Cheers gary
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Post by Phil Taylor on Mar 15, 2014 19:14:24 GMT
You can't spec sound by spec'ing materials and a specific builder. You don't know exactly what you're wanting to hear. If you did you wouldn't be commissioning a build for it because it would already be in your possession in another guitar. You may think you know what you want to hear but, being honest with yourself, you don't. You can, however, gamble on it and accept or reject what you do get. Interesting subject this melodeous and I am not sure I fully agree with your view if I understand correctly what you are saying. Whilst I agree you can't spec out exactly what tone you are after you can certainly guide it in the right direction by choice of materials, size of guitar 12 fret, 14 fret etc. etc. Commissioning a guitar in my opinion is much more than just trying to get a certain tone albeit that is very, very important. It is about the whole experience of being involved in the choices to get something that feels, looks and plays great and hopefully the tone should be good too if you have done the research on the builders previous guitars. Where I do agree with you is that if tone is the 'be all and end all' you must remove the risk and buy one off the shelf that you can play before buying. Cheers Phil |
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Post by melodeous on Mar 15, 2014 19:51:34 GMT
Steering a builds towards a sound is not completely chasing the end of the rainbow but very near to it. On the side of the reputable builder and the sound of his boxes, if a sound of well known and lauded quality, materials aren't the weighted factor we might hope they are. Ervin Somogyi comes to mind here. He can inlay a world atlas in marquetry all over a guitar and still produce it as a sonic achievement par excellence. His hands can produce the right box every time in deference to all the discourse on the integrity of species, how it's cut, tuned, braced and generally prayed over. He comes along and quietly puts all that thinking in the scrap heap. His artwork beautifully destroys all the grain we point to specifically when relating material to tone. We think we know something about materials from over-exposure to others who think they know what they're talking about, and don't, as evidenced by Ervin's artistic consistency. Bring another lesser ornately ascribed craftsman into the discussion who can also produce a sonic beastie and I'm going to bet it's his hands shaping the box and not its constituent material that must be credited. But, you can make a case for materials if the illusion of it is there. It makes good table talk.
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Post by clydeslide on Mar 15, 2014 21:31:39 GMT
When I was looking at ordering a custom I played guitars be several different builders. Of those builders I'd say most of them produced guitars that were reproducible in terms of the sound they made, particularly Moon who I eventually went with. I think you're right, if there is a very specific sound you want them you need to play a lot of guitars and find it. I went in knowing what kind of sound the Moon would produce but also knowing that it would not be exactly the same as the guitars I played. I wasn't after a specific sound, I just found a guitar that played exactly how I wanted it too and sounded great, then picked the woods I thought would sound best for the kind of things I played. As a more general point in the discussion and not specifically aimed at yourself, I'd say sometimes people have a misconception when it comes to ordering a personal build. A lot of people seem to think that a builder will produce any sound you want, whereas in reality they have their guitars which produce sounds they are happy with. They are, of course, more flexible in terms of woods, size etc. possibly even bracing but I'm not sure about that. What you get with a personal build is more customisation available, and actually in many cases a cheaper instrument than some of things available from the big brands when comparing to similar models. As an example, I'm bowled over by the sound of davewhite 's Terz guitar, but I would want to go and play both it and some of his other instruments if I ever got to the point of ordering one. I think ordering a custom requires an open mind and trust in the builder, along with a lot of discussion about what you want and can expect. |
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Post by leoroberts on Mar 15, 2014 21:51:07 GMT
As an example, I'm bowled over by the sound of davewhite 's Terz guitar, but I would want to go and play both it and some of his other instruments if I ever got to the point of ordering one. I think ordering a custom requires an open mind and trust in the builder, along with a lot of discussion about what you want and can expect. Coming to Halifax? There'll be more than a few DeFaoites to have a play with |
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Post by clydeslide on Mar 15, 2014 21:59:47 GMT
As an example, I'm bowled over by the sound of davewhite 's Terz guitar, but I would want to go and play both it and some of his other instruments if I ever got to the point of ordering one. I think ordering a custom requires an open mind and trust in the builder, along with a lot of discussion about what you want and can expect. Coming to Halifax? There'll be more than a few DeFaoites to have a play with I'm planning to, but my current contract is up at the end of May so it's all systems go to writing fellowship proposals at the moment and dealing with something else fairly significant. But yes, I'm certainly planning on attending |
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Post by davewhite on Mar 16, 2014 7:35:05 GMT
As an example, I'm bowled over by the sound of davewhite 's Terz guitar, but I would want to go and play both it and some of his other instruments if I ever got to the point of ordering one. I think ordering a custom requires an open mind and trust in the builder, along with a lot of discussion about what you want and can expect. Coming to Halifax? There'll be more than a few DeFaoites to have a play with I'm also going to be at the Llyn Acoustic Guitar Festival 2014 with a number of my instruments on October 3,4 and 5th. |
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) experience that trying before buying is no guarantee for me either I'm afraid. I need to live with the sound and feel of a guitar for at least a few months to know if it's a correct choice. Which given the instant depreciation on a new guitar as soon as it's bought is a bugger. 
Jo whoever he is.
