leoroberts
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Post by leoroberts on May 7, 2014 18:12:16 GMT
Yup, I'm not a fan of my own voice and I often find that the songs I want to sing have a range greater than I can accomplish. "Can't Take My Eyes Off You" was a case in point - to get the high bits comfortably I had to sing the vers quite low - too low really - but I couldn't capo it up any more without making the zouk redundant. This probably explains why self-penned songs are mostly in C or D with very little tune Along with the faux-american thingy, I also dislike too many 'breaky/yodel' bits in songs. This seems to be something that female singers do and, in moderation, it sounds fine but too often it's done to death ... a bit like Tommy Emmanuel thrashing a good choon to within an inch of its life just to show off how good he is.
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walkingdecay
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Post by walkingdecay on May 7, 2014 22:01:51 GMT
I have no problem at all with singers adopting foreign accents as long as they're true to the idiom and are practiced enough to be convincing. I'm very glad that accidents of location didn't prevent Paul McCartney from writing Get Back, or June Tabor from singing Le Vingt-Cinquième du Mois d'Octobre.
I'll add that we seem more forgiving of instrumentalists adopting "foreign" idioms, that we seem perfectly happy for an English fiddle player to use "authentic" ornamentation on an Irish reel, or a Scottish flamenco player to flail and pummel in exactly the way a Spaniard would.
Great thread. I hope to contribute more when I have time.
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007
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Post by 007 on May 7, 2014 22:30:59 GMT
You tube wasn't invented in 1935 Alison
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Post by vikingblues on May 8, 2014 7:36:07 GMT
Good thread! I'm certainly not keen on my own voice, and as has already been said on the thread not liking ones own singing voice does seem like a common problem. But I know in my case I really could have worked so much more on singing better - but trying to play a guitar half decently has been such a priority the singing takes a back seat. Too limited a vocal range and not enough ability to sustain notes are two major failings. But the most difficult thing about singing (and there's such a lot of difficulties) is putting the expressivesness into and getting the story telling sound to a song. I'm not too fussed on the subject of faux accents of any sort - there are a lot of songs / styles where (fairly or unfairly) the "wrong" accent might well not sit right. Although I do admire those who have unashamedly used their own broad accent when it wasn't fashionable. Martin mentioned the Proclaimers, and on a Scotish theme I'll have to add Alex Harvey to the list - a listen to "Next" (adaptation of a song by Jacques Brel) off the OGWT will show what I mean about an accent - and boy, could Alex Harvey be expressive and tell a story! Generally I'm not keen on the singers always at the top of their range either, and do have a preference for those that generally sing at the lower end of their spectrum. Though thinking about those singers I have listened to a lot there's a good few will stray into the upper reaches at least some of the time - if the music, story, and song is good enough I can stand the pain of occasional straying - I must be able to given the amount I once listened to Peter Hammill / Van der Graf Generator. I really don't like the "use 24 notes where 1 will do" brigade - but that applies equally to guitars and other instrumentalists too. Some adornment - yes - but I'm no longer impressed (old, knackered and cynical) by pyrotechnics. I've even found I'm now very irritated by the excessive number of notes in so many classical guitar pieces, and give me a slow Celtic air in preference to a manic turbocharged jig. Mark
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Post by scripsit on May 8, 2014 7:56:23 GMT
Generally I'm not keen on the singers always at the top of their range Don't want to derail the thread (OK, maybe I do), but does anyone remember Budgie? What happened to Welsh upper octave metal? Kym
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Post by scorpiodog on May 8, 2014 10:40:22 GMT
I read a book recently called "Singing From The Floor" about the rise and fall of folk clubs from the 50's to the 80's. Apparently Ewan McColl (who appears to have been a difficult and uncompromising man) wouldn't let people sing at his folk club (the Singers' Club") unless they sang in their own regional accent. Apparently their songs needed to be from their own region too.
Walking decay makes an interesting point about instrumental "accent" and ornamentation (I love the phrase "flail and pummel" in relation to flamenco!) seeming more acceptable than sung regional accents.
I've never been really sure why Martin Carthy (a Londoner) sings in the rather bizarre accent he seems to adopt. I remember a lot of floor singers in the 60's doing the same.
But apart from accents, what else do we like (or dislike) singers to do?
How do we feel about injecting emotion into songs? I think it works sometimes (look at this - magnficent!).
But is awful when it appears false or overdone. Like this:
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007
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Post by 007 on May 8, 2014 12:23:16 GMT
Someone sang this at Folk club last night and it just sounded so right but it would work in a deep south american or texan accent or even an Australian accent, mate acousticsoundboard.co.uk/threads/recentAfter all songs are about experiences, emotions etc, people of all accents have these
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missclarktree
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Post by missclarktree on May 8, 2014 15:56:08 GMT
Along with the faux-american thingy, I also dislike too many 'breaky/yodel' bits in songs. This seems to be something that female singers do and, in moderation, it sounds fine but too often it's done to death ... a bit like Tommy Emmanuel thrashing a good choon to within an inch of its life just to show off how good he is. It's a bit like what I call 'creaking'. I think it was invented by someone called Britney something or other. They start the syllable with a creak, or croak, to prove how emotional they are. When I noticed young women doing it I googled and found that it's called 'vocal fry'. It seems to be fashion at the moment. Makes me want to shriek.
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Post by melodeous on May 9, 2014 1:59:36 GMT
Never thought about this 'Merken accent thing before this thread but I guess it is odd that one would alter one's natural diction to mimic it outside of a joke. Do you think it goes back to the "British Invasion" music of the early 60's in America? I think that might be one focal point, anyway. I say sing as you are. Can't imagine Dougie Maclean twanging out Caledonia in his best Texas drawl.
Even here people fake that US country twang to the extent that you want to slap some sense of pride into them. It's kind of like a badge to trounce the English language over here as a mark of the varying cultural identities. Probably something similar in England.
Musically speaking (singing), I attempt a faithful lexicon-directed pronunciation without an accent of any kind. I've lived all over the US and was actually bullied as a child for bringing a New England accent down to the gulf coast of Mississippi by "peers". So, I've tried to keep my speaking clean of any regional identifying accents lest I be labeled by the labelers of ill intent.
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Post by delb0y on May 9, 2014 8:10:38 GMT
In the interests of science I thought I'd provide the raw material to enable a proper and scientific comparison to be made. So here's a version of Thwarted in my natural accent. As I said previously I'm over in Gloucester, so there's a very slight West Country twang to this version, but other than that is there a lot of difference? soundclick.com/share.cfm?id=12784779Cheers Derek
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ocarolan
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Post by ocarolan on May 9, 2014 8:43:17 GMT
Methinks you doth protest too much, but, nice one, I loved it! Brings out the humour in the lyric wonderfully. Thanks for doing that Derek. Keith
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Post by scorpiodog on May 9, 2014 9:33:17 GMT
Brilliant, Derek. Works well with your Glawster drawl!
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Post by slasher on May 9, 2014 11:01:46 GMT
Having bought a Sonny Boy Williamson LP from a shop in Soho when I was sixteen I became hooked on the blues for a while. I eventually realised that I was not a black 68 year old share-cropper from the Mississippi delta but a nice white middle class english boy and singing in a foreign accent felt bogus, so I gave up! I only sing in (vaguely northern) English now. As for technique, a simple suggestion:- Sing standing up. When playing the guitar when seated your body when viewed from the side from hip to shoulder can often be in a C-shape. This does not allow your lungs to fully function or your diaphragm to move easily. Standing works for me, I only sit to play when learning a new song. Another thing:- Learn your words. It is often seen at sessions that the worst performers are those using word sheets. They seem to be concentrating on where they are up to, whats comong nex, and simply "getting through" the song. If you know the words you can express and interpret the meaning.
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walkingdecay
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Post by walkingdecay on May 9, 2014 11:48:10 GMT
I believe it's all but impossible to sing a song with blue notes convincingly in an English accent.
Anyone care to prove me wrong?
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brianr2
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Post by brianr2 on May 9, 2014 11:55:07 GMT
give me a slow Celtic air in preference to a manic turbocharged jig. Mark I could not agree more. Reminds me of a nice quote I saw recently, attributed to an unnamed musician: "better to make tears fall than jaws drop". Brian
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