scotch
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Post by scotch on May 28, 2014 20:33:06 GMT
Hello Folks, Firstly I hope you dont mind me placing this in the Plucky Duck. It's not really for your listen pleasure but more me asking for your advice. I've been practising singing for a while. More so than actually learning new guitar pieces, which has led me to forget many tunes I could play. I know I may not have timing, lyrics completely right but I realise that singing to a None living object puts you off and this was on of the best takes. Here it is https%3A//soundcloud.com/chrisb-scotland/dont-think-twice-2-versesAny Comments and advice is appreciated. Thanks, Chris.
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leoroberts
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Post by leoroberts on May 29, 2014 7:18:11 GMT
Hey up, Chris. The second verse seemed a lot less stilted and disjointed than the first - d'you think that was because you'd relaxed a bit and 'got into it'? If so, maybe that's the lesson! You're right, it can be nervewracking singing for the benefit of a microchip rather than audience (although I prefer it!) I tend to imagine myself performing when I'm recording, it seems to help with voice projection apart from anything else. I wouldn't ever criticise someone else's performance, though, I'm too aware of my own failings in that respect! It might be that you'd post future 'tries' in Heckler's Corner until your satisfied with a take to post in TPD
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scotch
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Post by scotch on May 29, 2014 7:36:24 GMT
Thank you for your comment Leo.
Yeah, Usually later on in the song seems to grow more confidence where it seems to go more smoothly.
Ive completely missed that this had sub sections. Ill post further stuff there.
Thanks, Chris.
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Post by vikingblues on May 29, 2014 9:25:44 GMT
If you've ever heard my singing Chris you'll realise I'm in no position to give out advice and certainly not any criticism! It does sound as if you're making good progress to me though and that practice is paying off - a recording growing in confidence highlighted by Leo is often the way it goes, which can sometimes work well as it gives the recording a sort of build up to the end. Though it wouldn't be the first time I've started a recording really well and the pressure of maintaining that really screws up the later part something rotten. Funny how putting a microchip in front of us leads to more errors and less fluency than usual, though video recording seems even worse for that than just audio to me. Trouble is it's impartial and won't be tactful about the qualities of my recording when I listen to it afterwards. On balance though, I prefer it to an audience which may be abusive rather than impartial and also might throw things. Mark
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ocarolan
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Post by ocarolan on May 29, 2014 10:05:49 GMT
Hello Folks, Firstly I hope you dont mind me placing this in the Plucky Duck. It's not really for your listen pleasure but more me asking for your advice.................... Chris. @ scotch - Been thinking about this Chris, and think that in view of your own comments above it might well be best placed in the "Playing and Techniques" section. What do you reckon? I can move it there if that's OK with you... Keith
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scotch
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Post by scotch on May 29, 2014 10:20:11 GMT
Yes Keith. I think it would be more suited over there. Just wasn't too sure of where to post this.
Thanks.
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ocarolan
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Post by ocarolan on May 29, 2014 22:33:16 GMT
Don't think twice is a great song, and one of the first "proper" songs I learned using my first fumbling and very unstructured and irregular attempts at fingerpicking a long time ago. Within a year or so of that I'd got a better grip on basic fingerpicking, transposed it to a better key, could keep it to a regular pulse, had the vocal phrasing matching the words and the guitar matching them and was much happier with my version of it. 50 years on from there I still play and sing it pretty similarly to that slightly better version!
I reckon a year from now, Chris, your version will be transformed too. As for the current version, I like the tempo you've chosen, and your voice has a really pleasant sound. You're right about the timing though, and I'm sure this is the thing to work on. I'm not sure if the guitar timing is throwing the vocal timing off, or vice versa, but whichever it is, maybe getting the guitar part to work to a more regular pulse onto which the words can then be fitted could be one way to proceed. Once the guitar and voice are working together you can then add variety to the vocal phrasing and strum patterns without losing the overall regular beat. Hope that makes sense.
Hope you'll stick at this one Chris, as I look forward to hearing the Mk 2 recording at some stage - and the Mk ? in a year or so!
Keith
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Martin
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Post by Martin on May 30, 2014 7:49:20 GMT
Chris, I agree with Keith in that it will help enormously to get the guitar rhythm part sorted first, and then add the vocal. When I *ahem* attempt to play and sing, the only way I can manage it is by nailing the guitar part first, so I can play without thinking about it, and that lets me add the vocal on top in the right place. In saying that, I think your version shows a lot of promise with a great sounding guitar and good voice, so it is well worth persevering with
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Post by fatfingerjohn on May 30, 2014 13:31:59 GMT
Hi Chris,
Like a few others have said, as a player I have little right to suggest things ; so these comments are largely as a listener!
First, I think your version is a pretty good start. It doesn't sound like a straight cover of Dylan; to me that's good, not bad. I love Dylan, but he's VERY hard to imitate and on many of his songs I hear at clubs etc people are trying too hard at times to 'sound like Dylan' and the result is sometimes a bit grim. So, to me don't try to make it sound like Dylan, or even sound like you trying to sound like Dylan; just make it sound like you. And that certainly includes the tempo and the rhythm.
From a playing point of view, on most songs, I just start off somewhere and after sometimes months of going back to a song again and again, it usually ends up sounding somewhere near where I think it's OK; and this isn't a planned progression (i.e. 'I'm now going to try to make it sound like this and speed this up, or change the rhythm here' etc) but just an evolution into what it becomes. Often this may then be not what others want to listen to! (And sometimes that includes me as well).
So I would suggest that you've made a great start and avoided the 'how does Dylan do it' trap; just see where it takes you and good luck. Hope you post your version again in 3 or so months.
FFJ
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scotch
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Post by scotch on May 30, 2014 21:40:18 GMT
Thank you Keith, Martin and John.
Think maybe the next best stage is just to record the Guitar and vocals separately but getting the Zoom H2 to work I can finally actually give it practice. Maybe this way will allow me to make the song more the way I want as just fitted around the guitar which isn't the most ideal way.
Ill pick up another singing project and continue to progress with this one.
But mainly with posting this I was just curious if I was picking up bad habits and going in the right direction as vocal lessons are a bit pricey so maybe consider in a year or so.
Thanks, Chris.
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Post by scorpiodog on Jun 3, 2014 12:51:00 GMT
As a card carrying old bloke, Don't Think Twice is one of those songs one can't hear without mentally hearing Mr Dylan's delivery. It was quite refreshing to hear it played without much reference to the original. I really like your choice of strumming pattern. I really like your voice, and the fact that I can hear your Scottish accent coming through once or twice adds authenticity, which I also like. Furthermore, I can tell you're really selling the song. Making it sound like you mean it and aren't just singing sounds that happen to be words. Now, I'm assuming when you asked for advice here, you meant it, because I've listened quite hard to your recording and I've a few observations if you don't mind. With such a familiar tune, I feel it's important to get the melody just right or, if you do make a change, to make a large change to show you meant to. In the line "If you don't know by now" you don't sing the original melody, but it sounds almost accidental. The same applies to the second time you sing "And it ain't no use to sit and wonder why, Babe" in the first verse. I don't know whether this is a song you're really familiar with, but I would suggest you go back and listen to the melody of the original, and if you feel it needs a change, change it wholesale. I really like the spoken "I'll be gone" but am less enamoured of the "mind and stay" in the second verse. You lose a syllable in the line "To try to make me change my mind and stay" I can't quite figure out how, but I think this may be a function of speaking part of the line. The line "I'm on the dark side of the road" loses the rhythm. Now in the accompaniment, I think you're playing it in the key of E. You seem to make the transition hard from a C#m chord to a F#7. I'm not surprised. Is your F#7 242352? if so, you might find it easier to make it 242322 by leaving your pinky off. There also seem to be some hesitations where the chord changes from C#m to A, and on one occasion from A to E. As these are not such radical position changes and go to open chords, I'm assuming the pauses are to do with glancing away from the guitar fingerboard to the words. As time goes on and you get this song properly under your belt, you'll learn it without having to read it, but for now, are you sure you have the words printed large enough? I truly don't mean this facetiously. If it is unfamiliarity with the lyrics that causes the hesitation, you want to eradicate it as soon as possible, before it becomes ingrained as part of the "finger memory". I sincerely hope this helps. I like what you're doing with this great song, and I'll look forward to your posting it again when you have it perfect.
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scotch
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Post by scotch on Jul 9, 2014 19:09:38 GMT
Sorry, I forgot to thank you scorpiodog I did read your advice and give it a go. Been lacking on the singing but been practising for a fair bit of this song and currently learning another vocal song. Just to split things up. I've listed to old version and new version. Seems guitar has improves. Still a few errors. Can't seem to get out of this pattern but Vocally don't seem to hear much improvement. I'll give a good blast solo vocals. Just to me more tuned to what I'm singing. https%3A//soundcloud.com/chrisb-scotland/dont-think-twice-update-2
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scotch
Cheerfully Optimistic
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Post by scotch on Nov 5, 2014 17:42:14 GMT
Howdy folks. Since the meetup haven't had much time to play guitar so finally after work got some alone time with the guitar And though record Dont think twice to check if there is any improvements in my voice. Unfortunately the Zoom had stopped working atm but I have recently bought an Iphone and recorded on that and was better than my expectations. I did two tries at this song one with fingerpicking which went horribly vocally and a simple strumming and I heard improvements in my voice but only issue is the lyrics got stirred up so the lyrics are all out of place but you can get the jist.
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Post by colan on Nov 5, 2014 21:12:34 GMT
Scotch- why not take the strangulator off and play it in Emaj , first position ? You're playing in Emaj anyway so the vocal wouldn't change and adding the necessary B chord will develop your barre playing along with other closed chords. It will also allow the guitar its natural bass and facilitate right hand ' palming ' for a chunkier rhythm. It sounds OK as it is, mind. We all have our foibles.
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Post by creamburmese on Nov 6, 2014 19:22:44 GMT
I agree this has a lot of potential! I only sing in public if accompanied by at least 10 other singers who drown me out....so can't talk to the singing. However I think what will make the biggest difference in improving this from a listeners point of view is sorting out the rhythm and tempo. Although Dylan varies both, first you have to get it regular... You might consider practicing with a metronome until you can nail the tempo and the downbeats, then when you lose the metronome you can add your own variations. Keep up the good work!
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