Akquarius
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Post by Akquarius on Jul 2, 2014 18:06:11 GMT
Recently I've been trying to get into latin music.
Of course, I could just learn all the sus2, 7b9, maj7 (and so forth) chords by heart and be done with it.
I always like to actually know what I'm doing, though. So it seems that I finally have to roll up my sleeves and finally dive into the theory of harmony.
What do you think ? Is it worth the effort ?
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Post by jonnymosco on Jul 2, 2014 21:14:36 GMT
Yes, we could chat about it in the car on the way up to Halifax, not that I'm an expert... I think you just need to be able to count to 8 (or there abouts)?
Jonny
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walkingdecay
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Post by walkingdecay on Jul 3, 2014 8:52:49 GMT
It's absolutely worth it, Bernd. When you have the basics down thinking about how you're going to approach a new tune is akin to glancing at a map and feeling like you already know several ways to reach your destination.
The learning process seems daunting at first, but once you begin to get the logic of it all everything slots into place and progress accelerates. Before long you'll be able to recognise chord progressions and work out inversions and extensions based on what you already know. What I discovered was that while you can spend years delving into theory, the parts that actually work for the western ear and you really need to know can be picked up quite quickly. In the end there's not such gulf between the Ligetis, the Duke Ellingtons and the Bo Diddleys as we might think.
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Akquarius
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Post by Akquarius on Jul 3, 2014 14:55:37 GMT
Yes, we could chat about it in the car on the way up to Halifax, not that I'm an expert... I think you just need to be able to count to 8 (or there abouts)? Jonny Good idea! I hope that by the end of september my knowledge of music theory has improved in a way that I'll be able to chat about it. This includes translating the technical terms from german to english It's absolutely worth it, Bernd. When you have the basics down thinking about how you're going to approach a new tune is akin to glancing at a map and feeling like you already know several ways to reach your destination. The learning process seems daunting at first, but once you begin to get the logic of it all everything slots into place and progress accelerates. Before long you'll be able to recognise chord progressions and work out inversions and extensions based on what you already know. What I discovered was that while you can spend years delving into theory, the parts that actually work for the western ear and you really need to know can be picked up quite quickly. In the end there's not such gulf between the Ligetis, the Duke Ellingtons and the Bo Diddleys as we might think. This sounds very encouraging, Pete. I've started my "studies" yesterday evening and already had my first "Eureka"-moments. Like, for example, why it is that the perfect fifth and the major and minor third are the intervals that our ear likes the most. I have to admit that I'm already very curious about the whole matter.
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missclarktree
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Post by missclarktree on Jul 3, 2014 18:06:55 GMT
I'm sure it is worth the effort for people who can discipline themselves to do it, but my brain goes into 'freeze' mode if it sees anything it doesn't want to do.
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Post by bellyshere on Jul 4, 2014 7:11:16 GMT
You open up a right can of worms once you get into theory. It gets into your head.
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Post by martin130161 on Jul 4, 2014 14:28:44 GMT
Recently I've been trying to get into latin music. Of course, I could just learn all the sus2, 7b9, maj7 (and so forth) chords by heart and be done with it. I always like to actually know what I'm doing, though. So it seems that I finally have to roll up my sleeves and finally dive into the theory of harmony. What do you think ? Is it worth the effort ? Bernd, I've got absolutely no hesitation in recommending this book/series of books to you! www.skepticalguitarist.com/skeptbooks/volume1.htmMy own shelves creak under the weight of the many pounds I've wasted over the years on books that have promised the earth, and then failed to deliver from round about page two or three onwards... Discovering Bruce Emery and his way of presenting music theory was an absolute breath of fresh air! At the very least, visit his website and see what you think... Cheers, Martin
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ocarolan
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Post by ocarolan on Jul 4, 2014 14:40:48 GMT
Bernd, if all you want to do is to learn about chord construction then I'm with Jonny, (though my method is probably a bit more homespun) - you just need to be able to count. Chords are only collections of notes with a particular difference (interval) between each of them and the root note. The intervals can be easily counted in terms of how many frets to go from the root note to each of the others.
To take a simple example - look at (e.g.)Fmaj7. Compare it with an F major chord. Count the number of frets between the root note and each other note in the chord. What is different? An E note - technically speaking this is a maj7th interval, but it is also, and more simply, one fret down from the root note (or 11 up) and is in addition to the notes already present in F major. So to convert any major chord into the corresponding maj7 just add the note that is one fret down (or 11 frets up) from the root note.
Use the same method for all the other types of chord you wish to form - identify (or look up) one of them. Start with root note and count the frets between the root note and the other notes in the chord. Apply the same intervals in terms of fret difference (saves learning all the proper terms, but can learn them if you wish of course) to any other root note to get your new chord.
Rough and ready, but it works.
Keith
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Akquarius
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Post by Akquarius on Jul 4, 2014 17:23:39 GMT
bellyshere, the can's allready open martin130161, thanks for the link. I have a good book I'm working with, but I'll surely have a look and see how this can help me ocarolan Keith, I think your post will need some time to settle. Maybe I should have mentioned that I more or less start from scratch. That is, if I plan to compare an F with an F major chord, I first have to know what notes an F chord is actually built with. Then find out that an F chord is a three note chord, whereas an F major is a 4 note chord, because it adds a major 7th (I learned that yesterday!). So, you see, there's a long way to go for me, but, as is obvious once more in this thread, in this forum you'll never walk alone
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Post by michaelm on Jul 4, 2014 17:43:42 GMT
bellyshere, the can's allready open martin130161, thanks for the link. I have a good book I'm working with, but I'll surely have a look and see how this can help me ocarolan Keith, I think your post will need some time to settle. Maybe I should have mentioned that I more or less start from scratch. That is, if I plan to compare an F with an F major chord, I first have to know what notes an F chord is actually built with. Then find out that an F chord is a three note chord, whereas an F major is a 4 note chord, because it adds a major 7th (I learned that yesterday!).So, you see, there's a long way to go for me, but, as is obvious once more in this thread, in this forum you'll never walk alone Let's add to the confusion... I thought F maj was a three note chord (the 1st, 3rd and 5th ) of the scale of F Major which would make it F,A,C. Fmajor 7 would then add a Major 7th which would make it F, A, C, E. I could be wrong though!
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alig
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Post by alig on Jul 4, 2014 17:47:56 GMT
Yup. I'm with Keith.
Major - 1st, 3rd and 5th (notes of relevant scale) Minor - 1st, flat 3rd and 5th Seventh - as above (major or minor) + 7th, etc, etc.
I have to confess to humming doh, ra, me, etc as I wander through the fingering of an unfamiliar chord. Takes a bit of time but it's stood me in good stead...
Before guitar I played clarinet and approached guitar with the little knowledge of music I had.
It helped to tinker about with chords out on a piano too.
As Keith and Jonny have said - if you can count to eight (and aren't tone deaf...) you're off and running.
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Akquarius
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Post by Akquarius on Jul 4, 2014 17:49:30 GMT
Sorry, my fault. I was writing F major and was thinking of Fmaj7. Of, course, you're right. Well, it's the little errors in life that help you to learn :-) I have to confess to humming doh, ra, me, etc as I wander through the fingering of an unfamiliar chord. Takes a bit of time but it's stood me in good stead... Now this is an interesting approach. I had never thought of analysing a new chord. I just played it. I guess I should have thought about that.
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Akquarius
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Post by Akquarius on Jul 5, 2014 15:55:45 GMT
Martin, getting one of these seems to be more difficult than I had thought. It looks like Bruce Emery is not available in Germany. At least not by looking through our major online bookshops and then simply ordering it. Before I order directly from the U.S. I'll try some other ways. Shipment from the States is usually quite expensive.
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Post by davidmead on Jul 10, 2014 12:03:25 GMT
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Post by creamburmese on Jul 13, 2014 21:40:54 GMT
And to add to the confusion - A 7th chord is the 3 note chord with the addition of the flattened 7th(which is half a step - er- one fret- down from the 7th note of the scale. In contrast a major 7th chord adds the unflattened 7th note of the scale.... To give an example - the G7 in first position we all know and love has F natural added - this is the 'flattened' seventh because the 7th note of the G major scale is F#. G maj7 would add the F#. Clear as mud, right?
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