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Post by andyhowell on Oct 7, 2014 16:25:15 GMT
I'm beginning to think of some new gear — if I can avoid the growing desire to buy a mandolin.
I'm looking for another decent vocal mic. I use a Rode NT2 (?) at the moment and while this is great for voice overs I'm not as happy with this for vocals. I'm happy to spend a bit of money although not a fortune. My voice is quite strong and doesn't need a mic that 'fattens' up the mids and the lower frequencies — I'm happy with something that has more definition in the upper register.
Any suggestions?
I'm also thinking of buying a stereo pair of small condensers for the guitar. Rode NT55s? Those Russian built things (who's name escapes me at the moment) or should I break the bank with Neumann K184s?
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Post by elverman on Dec 14, 2015 16:15:01 GMT
There's so many affordable bits out there now. I usually get Sound on Sound and read a few (but not too many) reviews online when shopping for kit. I also subscribe to Tape-Op mag which is a bible for sensible home-recording advice.
I had a rush of blood to the head and spent more on my a Mojave tube condenser mic than I've ever spent on a guitar earlier this year. I do like it a lot but honestly, I've done more recording since buying it on the old beaten up SM57 I keep in my desk drawer. A lot of that is due to having had to move my "studio" (an iMac, Apogee Duet and Adam A5x monitors on a desk) into a corner of the living room. I'm stuck in a bass-trap corner with hard laminate flooring and high-ish ceilings. The thing about "great" mics is that if your room sounds like a55, then they'll faithfully recreate that horrible sound. Pretty sure that's why I'm currently getting more usable results out of the cheapo dynamic.
I've thought about stereo pairs for acoustic guitar too and had the same debate re: Rode/Neumanns.But on reflection I'm not sure what I want from a guitar sound is what they would deliver (a hyper-real, full spectrum, detailed, stereo image). The recorded guitar sounds I like the best are warm, woody and mellow. With that sound in mind I'm now looking at ribbon mics for miking my guitar and sticking with the MA500 (or SM57!) for vocals.
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Post by lavaman on Dec 14, 2015 17:41:45 GMT
Easy to spend lots of cash on mics. IMHO, if you can afford it, KM184s are perfect for recording acoustic guitar. I've hired them and got a great sound. However, I couldn't afford to buy them so I bought Rode NT5s and I'm happy with them. I've borrowed Oktava MK-02s and they are very good. Thomann have a good deal on them at www.thomann.de/gb/oktava_mk_01201_mkiimatched_pair.htm. I don't feel that you need a matched pair. On my recent recordings I've tended to use a small condenser mic like the NT5 pointing just behind the bridge and a large diameter condenser like an sE4400a pointing at the neck / body join. I also use ribbon mics if I want a warmer sound. I've used NT2A for vocals and had good results. They are very low noise, but perhaps a little 'brittle' sounding. I recommend you hire some mics for a weekend before committing to a purchase. If I started out again, and had the cash, I would go for a Neumann KM184 and an AKG C414. Use the AKG for vocals and the two together for guitar.
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Post by vikingblues on Dec 14, 2015 20:44:37 GMT
If you can find the right pair of mics for you and your guitars (whether matched or not) I feel it adds a huge positive amount to recording qualities.
I did look at the possibility of some of the big name quality mics and started to feel financially queasy. I suspect that, as with guitars, some brand labels come with a big price hike.
I'm happy that I managed to get a pair of mics that suited me at a price (approx £120 each) that didn't leave my bank account too drained. Since the two Avantone CK-1 mics arrived in my recording setup I've lost the need to tinker with EQ, fx and added reverb at all. Just rich and full sound.
It makes sense to me that there should be at least one omni capsule mic involved as the acoustic guitar has so many different types of sounds coming from different parts of the guitar body - it also avoids the bass proximity problem when closer to the microphone.
I'm totally converted to the benefits of small diaphragm for best acoustic guitar sound too.
Mark
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Post by elverman on Dec 15, 2015 11:48:46 GMT
I agree in theory but the problem i find with omni condensers for home recording is that you pick up every little sound in the room from planes overhead and distant sirens to radiators ticking and rustling clothes. I had to abandon a living room recording with an omni condenser because every little move my wife made (she was lying on the sofa watching TV with earbuds in) came through loud and clear from across the room.
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Post by lavaman on Dec 15, 2015 18:44:39 GMT
It makes sense to me that there should be at least one omni capsule mic involved as the acoustic guitar has so many different types of sounds coming from different parts of the guitar body - it also avoids the bass proximity problem when closer to the microphone. Mark Omni's can pick up unwanted sound BUT they do give a sense of the room space which can really help the mix (as do ribbon mics 'cause they're figure 8 pattern). An alternative is to use a third mic. Use two cardiod pattern mics pointing at the the guitar and a third to record the ambience of the room. I'm currently experimenting with using a Zoom H4n to capture the room sound. Mixed results so far but I feel it has potential.
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Post by Andy P on Dec 16, 2015 18:36:26 GMT
I've been following this thread with interest as I'm keen to equip myself with something good enough to achieve reasonable results but not keen to spend much at all! I send my files to my son and he works sufficient magic on them in his studio to make them good enough for me. I have a cheap-as-chips Behringer B1 condenser mic and having taken note of the above I'm considering complementing this with a Rode NT5. My son says "The problem with multiple mics is ensuring that they are in phase with each other - this means that the sound from the guitar arrives at both mics at precisely the same time". Any comments?
Thanks.
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Post by ocarolan on Dec 16, 2015 18:37:51 GMT
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Post by scripsit on Dec 16, 2015 22:53:20 GMT
"The problem with multiple mics is ensuring that they are in phase with each other - this means that the sound from the guitar arrives at both mics at precisely the same time". Any comments? Thanks. That is an old school recording studio comment (usually followed by some advice about the 'thirds rule') and is really only an issue if you are trying to record several instruments at once into a single pair of microphones. Phasing is a real problem when you have several different 'point sources' of sound all trying to get across the room into the microphones, and all at different distances away. If you are doing normal arrangements of two mics for solo guitar (spaced pair, XY, over the shoulder and out the front etc) it should not be an issue, because with close micing (less than 500mm from the guitar) you are unlikely to be getting different signals arriving at significantly different times. Even though sound comes out of different parts of the guitar, particularly the big membrane which is the top, you can consider it a point source for practical purposes. If you have mics further away you are going to have crap results anyway in a normal room because reflections will be coming from ceiling and corners to muddy things up whether they are in phase or not. Most DAWs have a tool which lets you check phasing issues quickly, but unless you have one microphone across the other side of the room and the other jammed against the 12th fret you are unlikely to have a problem: my experience is that you have to have some very unconventional mic placement to create phasing which affects recording. Kym
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Post by lavaman on Dec 16, 2015 23:58:36 GMT
My son says "The problem with multiple mics is ensuring that they are in phase with each other - this means that the sound from the guitar arrives at both mics at precisely the same time". Any comments? Thanks. The easy way is to measure that distance from each mic head to the guitar with a piece of string and move one closer / further away until the string length is the same. Doesn't take long to do and then you don't have to think about phase issues.
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Post by vikingblues on Dec 17, 2015 8:18:28 GMT
I agree in theory but the problem i find with omni condensers for home recording is that you pick up every little sound in the room from planes overhead and distant sirens to radiators ticking and rustling clothes. I had to abandon a living room recording with an omni condenser because every little move my wife made (she was lying on the sofa watching TV with earbuds in) came through loud and clear from across the room. That is a good point. A recording in the summer done with windows open can bring in the sound of chirping birds, lawn mowers, barking dogs etc. In the summer I know not to plan recording on a Sunday early evening, a neighbours regular time slot for mowing. But overall I'm happy to get the benefits of the improvements to the guitar sound with an omni - it just seems to make the sound so much less clinical and more alive. With using one omni and one cardioid for the recording I can also juggle the balance of the two so that I can some sonic benefit from the omni while getting less of the background noise. I do set up the microphones fairly close to the guitar (as close as possible without hitting bass proximity boom) so I don't need to set recording levels too high - reduces the extraneous noise. At the moment though I'd be happy if I could stop coughing for more than 30 seconds at a time - that really buggers up a recording. My son says "The problem with multiple mics is ensuring that they are in phase with each other - this means that the sound from the guitar arrives at both mics at precisely the same time". Any comments? Thanks. The easy way is to measure that distance from each mic head to the guitar with a piece of string and move one closer / further away until the string length is the same. Doesn't take long to do and then you don't have to think about phase issues. It can also help the recorded sound when the mics are just slightly different distances away as it can beef up the body of the sound. Rather like that trick of doing a single mic recording, copying and pasting the recording to another track and shifting it very slightly out of time with the first one. If you use a computer for recording / mixing it is also possible in the DAW if you magnify the tracks enough to manually slide the recording taken from one microphone so it lines up time wise with the other. Mark
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Post by vikingblues on Dec 17, 2015 8:26:54 GMT
It makes sense to me that there should be at least one omni capsule mic involved as the acoustic guitar has so many different types of sounds coming from different parts of the guitar body - it also avoids the bass proximity problem when closer to the microphone. Mark Omni's can pick up unwanted sound BUT they do give a sense of the room space which can really help the mix (as do ribbon mics 'cause they're figure 8 pattern). An alternative is to use a third mic. Use two cardiod pattern mics pointing at the the guitar and a third to record the ambience of the room. I'm currently experimenting with using a Zoom H4n to capture the room sound. Mixed results so far but I feel it has potential. It's an idea that I've had at the back of my mind for quite some time. But given my strong preference for the guitar sound obtained from an omni + cardioid I think I'd end up with that set up plus another omni for the room ambience. Maybe it's the way I play, or my guitars, or the way my ears (mal)function, but I find with two cardioids, however and wherever I place them, I don't end up with the same richness and depth of tone from the guitar itself. The Omni adds velvet. But as my interface only has two inputs I'd need more gear to use a 3 microphone system. Mark
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Post by andyhowell on Dec 17, 2015 9:53:30 GMT
But given my strong preference for the guitar sound obtained from an omni + cardioid I think I'd end up with that set up plus another omni for the room ambience. Maybe it's the way I play, or my guitars, or the way my ears (mal)function, but I find with two cardioids, however and wherever I place them, I don't end up with the same richness and depth of tone from the guitar itself. The Omni adds velvet. But as my interface only has two inputs I'd need more gear to use a 3 microphone system. I often flirt with the idea of using a third mic but then I would need a new interface as well , though I have tried this with a Zoom. Life is just to short and I just can't be bothered with all the faffing around. I'm more or less happy with the sound now. Phasing shouldn't be a problem with a simple stereo recording!
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Post by andyhowell on Dec 17, 2015 9:55:08 GMT
I realise this was a thread I started ages ago.
For those who are interested I ended up with a stereo pair of Beyerdynamic 935s — small condensers. These are no omni. Very, very good sound and while not cheap probably as good as I will ever need.
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Post by Andy P on Dec 17, 2015 11:08:30 GMT
Thanks guys for answering my query so thoroughly. I learn so much here
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