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Post by vikingblues on May 2, 2015 19:39:48 GMT
I've been finding that there is a problem with recording on microphones. Not regarding potential sound quality, but regarding my need to move about, sway a bit etc, to help the musical flow. If I stand stock still the musical flow ebbs to a weak trickle. At least that's my excuse!  I was looking for alternatives. The internal type of pickup like the K&K mini is good - but for multiple instruments! Ouch £££s! Soundwise I don;t go for the soundhole type of more transferable pickups. I did get quite interested in the K&K Meridian, but you can only use its own microphone and it needs bespoke preamps. Then I stumbled onto the Gordon Giltrap Signature H-Clamp. I can't do videos so here's Gordon Giltrap using one and discussing it:- I can only confirm that everything said in the video about it's qualities is right. I've tried it on the TW73 and the Lowden and it's fine on both. It has enough variation in size it'll cope with as small an instrument as ukuleles. It's grip is strong without being destructive - I can lift the guitar using the clamp when it's on. There was no problem weight wise with affixing dual small diaphragm microphones on a stereo bar so I'm sure a large diaphragm microphone would be no problem.  I played around a bit with it today plugged into the DAW using the TW73. Early days with working out the right positions for the microphones. But records clearly and the sound is not affected by me moving around. Test 1 Dual microphones on H-ClampInteresting.  Mark |
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Post by Cams on May 2, 2015 21:13:12 GMT
Wow, that's a nifty looking bit of kit. I'm gonna look into one of those. It could be great for a dual source set up, or on its own for my guitars that have nothing installed. Thanks for posting it here Mark.
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Post by scripsit on May 3, 2015 1:39:30 GMT
If you can get an effective placement of the mics and you're happy with the sound then a good idea.
I'm finding 400 to 450 mm away from the guitar is necessary for the different microphone combinations I've got access to, so I don't think this would be practical for me.
Does the rig feel a bit restrictive when you move your left hand further up towards the dusty end of the fret board? I find recording to be intimidating enough without additional physical and visual distractions, and you have to be able to create the right combination of arousal/relaxation to play well.
Kym
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Post by vikingblues on May 3, 2015 8:06:20 GMT
Wow, that's a nifty looking bit of kit. I'm gonna look into one of those. It could be great for a dual source set up, or on its own for my guitars that have nothing installed. Thanks for posting it here Mark. Cheers Cams. It doesn't seem to be a very high profile piece of gear despite Gordon Giltraps involvement. There is a bit of fiddling around to set it up on a guitar - not in the clamp attachment which is easy to do, but threading the microphone cable through ring loops and velcro ties to secure the cable takes a minute. Mark If you can get an effective placement of the mics and you're happy with the sound then a good idea. I'm finding 400 to 450 mm away from the guitar is necessary for the different microphone combinations I've got access to, so I don't think this would be practical for me. Does the rig feel a bit restrictive when you move your left hand further up towards the dusty end of the fret board? I find recording to be intimidating enough without additional physical and visual distractions, and you have to be able to create the right combination of arousal/relaxation to play well. Kym Hi Kym Due to the length of the supplied "boom" in the kit the furthest I can manage on distance is 9" from the fretboard (about 230mm) which is obviously way less than you look for. I'm still trying out various positions , angles etc so I can't say yet whether I'll get a sound that works for me as well as where I usually have microphones in the normal set up. It says in a Sound on Sound Review that "additional accessories (such as a longer boom arm) are planned" - I do not know whether this has resulted in anything yet but I will try and find out.  In that picture I have also shown the clamp attached further away from the neck. Gives a bit of extra distance for microphone to guitar AND also keeps the attachment further away from the left hand as it explores the "dusty end". In this position it does not interfere with the left hand at all. There is the option of putting the clamp above the neck rather than under it. So physically it doesn't get in the way and with lighter weight microphones it doesn't make the guitar balance feel any different. Visually it's certainly noticeable from the players view! In practice I've found I notice it when I start playing but I forget about it being there very quickly. You're spot on with looking for "the right combination of arousal/relaxation to play well". Which in a way is how I've come to try this piece of kit as for me in the standard microphone set up I feel inhibited from movement to avoid changing the relative position of guitar and microphone and that inhibits my playing. I've tested out the variations in tone that can occur while standing with the feet in the same place but with swaying, leaning forward and back, and moving the angle of the guitar v my body while playing and it's not good for consistent sound. Though I'm probably kidding myself to think there's a magic formula out of all this that will make me play well! That needs hard work, practice and (gulp!) skill. Mark |
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Post by Cams on May 4, 2015 10:34:40 GMT
It could really get in the way of a vocal mic stand in that configuration. I guess some experimentation would be in order. I'm certainly considering giving one a try as it would solve a lot of pick-up problems and I wouldn't have to take my Walker to gigs any more.
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Post by vikingblues on May 6, 2015 22:14:06 GMT
If you can get an effective placement of the mics and you're happy with the sound then a good idea. I'm finding 400 to 450 mm away from the guitar is necessary for the different microphone combinations I've got access to, so I don't think this would be practical for me. Does the rig feel a bit restrictive when you move your left hand further up towards the dusty end of the fret board? I find recording to be intimidating enough without additional physical and visual distractions, and you have to be able to create the right combination of arousal/relaxation to play well. Kym Hi Kym Due to the length of the supplied "boom" in the kit the furthest I can manage on distance is 9" from the fretboard (about 230mm) which is obviously way less than you look for. I'm still trying out various positions , angles etc so I can't say yet whether I'll get a sound that works for me as well as where I usually have microphones in the normal set up. It says in a Sound on Sound Review that "additional accessories (such as a longer boom arm) are planned" - I do not know whether this has resulted in anything yet but I will try and find out. Hmmm.  I got a nice friendly (and speedy) reply to the e-mail I sent to ExplorAudio from Robert Aithison himself, who developed the system. " We did manufacture a small batch of double length booms for market testing shortly after the SOS article. Unfortunately demand was so low that when we finally sold out we didn’t re-stock and the cost of re-starting manufacturing now would be prohibitive." I can well understand their reasoning for not continuing with the longer boom in those circumstances. I haven't had much time for exploring the gear more this last few days, but I'll update the thread if there are developments that I think are possibly useful as a guide to others. Mark |
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Post by vikingblues on May 20, 2015 20:05:12 GMT
There are developments! As I outlined elsewhere the Oktavas although billed as matched had significantly different recording levels - and were a tad on the warmer side recording wise. Doing some proper research - which I should have done before - I found out that the "proximity" affect is much more pronounced on Cardioid than on Omni microphones. So I got a small diaphragm mic with interchangeable capsules. An Avantone CK-1.  It works - there is a marked difference between Cardioid and Omni. The Cardioid has that increased bass response due to the proximity effect. I also rather like the sound of the Omni in the standard microphone stand set up. Sound sample:- Avantone Cardioid v Omni Test 1All sounds with microphone poiting at join neck & body On H Clamp:- Avantone CK-1 Cardioid Capsule 0:00 - 0:24 Avantone Ck-1 Omni Capsule 0:25-0:51 Avantone CK-1 Cardioid Capsule 0:52 - 1:18 Avantone Ck-1 Omni Capsule 1:19 - 1:46 On microphone Stand:- Avantone CK-1 Cardioid Capsule 1:48 - 1:59 Avantone Ck-1 Omni Capsule 2:00 - 2:12 I feel much happier about this set up now. Mark |
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leoroberts
C.O.G. 
Posts: 26,145 
My main instrument is: probably needing new strings
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Post by leoroberts on May 21, 2015 18:53:00 GMT
That went so far over my head I needed binoculars....
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Post by vikingblues on May 22, 2015 17:44:07 GMT
 nicely put Leo  Mind you - I then play as badly as I did last night and this morning and think why do I bother recording at all! If I'd known how damn complicated all the relationships were 'twixt acoustic guitar and various microphone(s) I might have just have left well alone. I'm now viewing the prospect of the next part of the project - changing the recording interface / device - with the same kind of enthusiasm that a dog has for a bath. Mark With many a curse and many a moan, he sought the perfect microphone, and could the changing of the interface, just leave him as a mental basket case.
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leoroberts
C.O.G.
Posts: 26,145
My main instrument is: probably needing new strings
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Post by leoroberts on May 22, 2015 21:55:09 GMT
With many a curse and many a moan, he sought the perfect microphone, and could the changing of the interface, just leave him as a mental basket case. A toke or two upon the herb and add a little room reverb to help the listener to avoid the feedback from the Cardioid |
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ocarolan
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Post by ocarolan on May 22, 2015 23:28:44 GMT
Such complications tax the brain with all that gear and all that strain. Much simpler just to clear the room and try recording with a Zoom. Keith  |
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leoroberts
C.O.G.
Posts: 26,145
My main instrument is: probably needing new strings
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Post by leoroberts on May 22, 2015 23:46:11 GMT
recording with them electronics
should result in clearer phonics
I cannot see the appeal
of going back to reel to reel
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ocarolan
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Post by ocarolan on May 23, 2015 0:09:49 GMT
Reel to reel? All that rewinding
when it comes to favourite finding!
Surely Mark's recorded tracks
should be on cylinders made of wax.
Keith
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leoroberts
C.O.G.
Posts: 26,145
My main instrument is: probably needing new strings
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Post by leoroberts on May 23, 2015 0:42:03 GMT
I understand not this desire to transmit music down a wire if music is to truly thrive just play the whole caboodle live needs a chorus .... anybody? |
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Post by creamburmese on May 29, 2015 12:56:46 GMT
So who's going to write the melody to go with the lyrics???
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nicely put Leo 
Jo whoever he is.
