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Post by dicky on Aug 1, 2015 19:34:18 GMT
hi everyone question, when using 3 fingers in fingerstyle is there a secret way to make fingers 2 and 3 work as fast together as 1 and 2 together seem too. i.e as in ralph mctell style. for those interested I am getting better at public playing. the other night I started too low and stopped, adjusted capo and carried on, missed a few notes and one verse . one worthy chap a while ago forget his words , did a verse of god save the queen and carried on!!!!! best wishes dicky
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Martin
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Post by Martin on Aug 1, 2015 23:46:31 GMT
Hi Dicky, There's no secret way that I know of other than the dreaded....*practice* It's just a case of involving the third finger as often as possible, ideally allocating the first string to that finger and making sure that the ring finger plays that string whenever required. Sorry to be of no great help, but it was just perseverence for me that allows me to use (albeit in a ham-fisted fashion) my three right hand fingers when finger-picking.
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Post by andyhowell on Aug 2, 2015 9:38:32 GMT
Ralph's style is all about picking patterns - claw hammer on 6 and 4 strings and simply double picks or two note chords. He has a good tab book on sale. Pick you favourite pieces in easy keys and build up speed slowly.
I'm giving some lessons to a fried at the moment. I've had to explain her that teenagers who get into the guitar spend simply hours and hours picking patterns while they are watching TV. It works :-)
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ocarolan
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Post by ocarolan on Aug 2, 2015 10:17:18 GMT
Gotta disagree in part there Andy, and amplify a little! Whilst Ralph does indeed use fixed patterns some of the time in some songs I wouldn't describe his playing as being entirely pattern based. Much of the time, though not always, the thumb may well be fairly regular, but the fingers often play fragments of melody/harmony and fills that lift his style into something much more interesting than simple pattern playing. He's one of those players where the guitar part is inextricably woven into the song and is a part of it, rather than one who plays a general-ish accompaniment upon which the song sits. Patterns are certainly useful for helping develop to develop finger independence, but are only the start of a truly flexible style which calls for greater independence of all the digits than the simple repetition of the same pattern. dicky - are there some songs that you play with thumb and fingers 1&2? I get the impression from your post that this is the case. If so, try them with thumb and fingers 2&3 instead until you can do it either way easily - it will help develop your 2-3 independence and help you to them move towards thumb and 1,2&3. Martin's suggestion of allocating fingers 1, 2,3 to strings 3,2,1 respectively is also a good one to try as ultimately this will produce a smoother result than using only two fingers (or even just one, as some folk do) to cover the top three strings. And, there's no reason why your fingers can't play bass strings and/or your thumb play treble strings from time to time if it gives a smoother result. Keith
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Post by fatfingerjohn on Aug 2, 2015 11:10:41 GMT
Another angle on this one is 'where to start when beginning'. There are lots of players who still swear that you never have to use more than two fingers for fingerstyle. I have always found using 3 is preferable and totally agree with the 3 fingers 'belonging' to strings 1,2, 3 and stress this with the group I teach. (The rule is 'always', unless I say differently!) But what I'm not sure of, being a non-professional 'teacher', is whether it is best to start with 3 fingers or 2. I started with a couple of 'simple' patterns using 3 fingers so that they got used to bringing in the ring finger from the start. I have wondered whether this has held them back as clearly it is a bit more challenging than 2-finger styles. Should I have started with 2 and moved on to 3 later? Interested to hear from the pro teachers.
Re Ralph McT
1. My favourite song of his demonstrates Keith's point of picking out the melody as well as a regular pattern as per this video; when I saw him recently live he did this solo on guitar so its definitely him doing it all!
2. This longer video is a good one if you have time to go through it.
John
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Post by andyhowell on Aug 3, 2015 10:20:07 GMT
I've never really understood the two finger thing. I'd just work with 3. I know there are quite a lot of finger style blues players who use two but I think for Ralph-type stuff three is always better for the patterns. Why cut off a finger (metaphorically)?
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Post by dicky on Aug 3, 2015 11:49:16 GMT
hi again ralphs style, in my opinion, is a good mixture of the old .garry davis etc and people like gary peterson. if you watch ralph in slow motion he uses fingers 2 an 3 extensively. streets of london is the basis of his style for ballads, again using 2/3 a lot. that is what i am trying to emulate with the extra notes that come from that method especially. in ragtime. kieth, i do use 3 fingers in what was a travis based folk stye. when i started playing again and looked at the stuff on u tube i realised that i was way behind what has happed to folk style now .i practice a lot now as i have more time. its going very slowly, age maybe. i am developing my own style but i would still like to incorperate more of the double notes [john hurt /blind blake and ralph] any extra tips are welcome. very best wishes to all dicky
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Post by creamburmese on Aug 3, 2015 16:41:20 GMT
I would think practicing arpeggios would help train the third finger - I just went through a sequence of them (one a week, incorporating the thumb in different patterns at the same time - it took me three months to get them all down) The basic arpeggios however are really good training for using all 3 fingers. In these examples the fingers remained on their home strings ie (third (a) finger on E. second (m) on B and first (i) on G string). Here are some you might consider trying if you can't already do them with the third finger - emphasis on even timing and volume - a metronome is useful ... pima pimi piam piai - pmia, pmim pmai pmam- paim pami paia pama. see what fun learning classical is?
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Post by missclarktree on Aug 3, 2015 18:55:20 GMT
I would think practicing arpeggios would help train the third finger - I just went through a sequence of them (one a week, incorporating the thumb in different patterns at the same time - it took me three months to get them all down) The basic arpeggios however are really good training for using all 3 fingers. In these examples the fingers remained on their home strings ie (third (a) finger on E. second (m) on B and first (i) on G string). Here are some you might consider trying if you can't already do them with the third finger - emphasis on even timing and volume - a metronome is useful ... pima pimi piam piai - pmia, pmim pmai pmam- paim pami paia pama. see what fun learning classical is? I think my classical teacher was of a similar mind. Happy days!
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Post by dicky on Aug 3, 2015 19:28:17 GMT
hello again . I wouldnt have known an arpeggio if it had run me over. it turns out a form of them is already in 3 finger style, at least mine, within the alternating base that I use as a basis. however, that is where it ends. I think that a structured daily ,or more, practice session will be of immense help in making my guitar acompanyment far more interesting. especially the ones that do not come naturally, to me at least. bring on tripplets and triads ,whatever they may be. further help will be even more welcome . great forum. best wishes dicky
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Post by andyhowell on Aug 3, 2015 20:16:24 GMT
Just to contradict myself (it happens) I realise one of my most recent penned songs I can only play with two fingers;! Doesn't work with 3!
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Post by creamburmese on Aug 3, 2015 20:26:52 GMT
Here is my guitar teacher on arpeggios.... enjoy!
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Post by brianr2 on Aug 4, 2015 7:31:16 GMT
Here is my guitar teacher on arpeggios.... enjoy! What an excellent teacher. I found this video really helpful: I have been having some tone problems recently and this helped me track them down to poor right hand positioning. Thank you so much! Brian
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Post by creamburmese on Aug 4, 2015 17:20:34 GMT
Yes I agree he's an excellent teacher... and very patient, which he needs to be with me. I have come to the conclusion that the effortlessly glorious sounds he gets out of a guitar are just magic and thus not available to ordinary mortals. (Though probably the concentrated application of about 30,000 hours of practice may have something to do with it as well). In any case, makes me feel better about my clumsy attempts to play even the simplest things.
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brianr2
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Post by brianr2 on Aug 5, 2015 16:59:46 GMT
Yes I agree he's an excellent teacher... and very patient, which he needs to be with me. I have come to the conclusion that the effortlessly glorious sounds he gets out of a guitar are just magic and thus not available to ordinary mortals. (Though probably the concentrated application of about 30,000 hours of practice may have something to do with it as well). In any case, makes me feel better about my clumsy attempts to play even the simplest things. Oh dear. If it takes 30000 hours I have left it a bit late, unless I give up eating, sleeping and all other distractions. If I could be sure of being as good as him, it would almost be worth it, though I fear I should still need everything that Harry Potter could throw at it. Brian
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