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Post by scripsit on Oct 6, 2015 22:52:33 GMT
The other thing I do (because I have no idea how to merge multiple tracks) is ... I don't know if this helps, but in most audio editing software, including free programs like Audacity, it's easy to make multiple tracks from a single, long take. Below is a screenshot from a tracking session where I stuck to my self-imposed '3 goes' rule. I've got a remote control for my DAW so that when I record with the computer I can start and stop recording from my seat in front of the microphones. In the screenshot you can see where each of the takes begins and ends (this allows me to take several deep breaths between takes, retune, promise god I'll be good if I get it right the next time and so on). If I record using the Zoom portable recorder, the track looks very similar when I upload it into my DAW for editing, except that there will be a longer gap between takes and no actual 'splits', because I've left it running for the three takes. I'll put the cut or split in manually and achieve the same result as the screenshot (perhaps even delete some of the non-music in between takes). Then, you can create two extra stereo tracks, underneath the first one, and cut and paste takes two and three underneath the first one. This makes it relatively easy to edit/merge between takes, because the same parts of the tune are close to each other vertically in the three different tracks. You can find individual notes and copy/paste them over clams, for instance. If you look closely at my tracks, you can see some bad string squeaks in a couple of the tracks which would definitely need to be fixed. After that you can start volume matching, EQ, reverb etc. And yes, it's cheating, as is all recording when you want to make a performance sound good. If you're just trying to measure live progress, you just need to keep the best attempt. Kym
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Post by andyhowell on Oct 7, 2015 9:09:14 GMT
Also I keep lecturing myself, it's no good being able to play a tune occasionally, under perfect conditions. I want to play reliably and accurately, otherwise I'm not allowed to call myself a guitarist. I'm afraid editing isn't allowed either , under the rules of this guitar academy. Fair enough.It is a good idea to practice a bit before you switch on the recorder — get nice and warm. No recording will ever be error free. I find — with multiple takes — there comes a time when the level of performance seems to drop; then I stop. Often I then listen back to the takes and find the best one and process that. Then I will leave it for day or so and then, oddly enough, when I comeback to it I'm much happier with it! Using recording to judge your own progress is a pretty good thing to do but remember this is supposed to be fun. Don't beat yourself up too much. Recording to publish for others — even here — shouldn't be too much worse. Most listeners have the ability to auto tidally edit out the mistakes !!! For any musician getting their music out there is part of the learning process. That is always risky of often doesn't go as well as you want but your views on this may not get in the way of other people enjoying it!
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missclarktree
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Post by missclarktree on Oct 7, 2015 16:15:38 GMT
Thanks andyhowell, you're right. I'll try to be a bit more relaxed about it. I'm going to put it to one side for a week or two, just to let the neurosis subside.
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Andy P
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Post by Andy P on Oct 8, 2015 17:17:44 GMT
Great thread this. My brain scrambles the instant the red light comes on. Some useful suggestions here, many thanks.
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Post by martinrowe on Oct 8, 2015 18:48:16 GMT
Good thread this. Isn't it interesting that so many people have a similar experience. Same here - leaving recording on seems to help but then it's a faff to edit and I always think the next take could be better. All takes are a one-off aren't they?
I think it raises some questions: Why am I recording, for what purpose? Should music be flawless?
Yo-yo Mar was on Radio 3 recently playing live for about 3-4 hours - about five Bach pieces one after another I think. It was portrayed as a feat of endurance, a marathon, rather than an interpretation of musical meaning.
One possible answer: practice for four hours a day, but that's probably not possible for non-professionals.
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Andy P
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Post by Andy P on Oct 8, 2015 19:12:21 GMT
Should music be flawless? I'd rather hear a piece performed with feeling and a couple of gliches than one lacking soul and mistakes.
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Post by lavaman on Oct 8, 2015 20:20:29 GMT
My playing has improved through recording. The early recordings were littered with flaws, but I found listening to them, although painful at first, allowed me to identify where I was going wrong. It allowed me to focus on where I need to improve. Now, a couple of years later, I compare my recent recordings with the earlier ones and can definitely see an improvement. Nothing wrong with making mistakes during recording. Bob Brozman once said "recording is God's way of telling you that your playing sucks" A bit harsh, but includes a semblance of truth
Iain
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Post by scripsit on Oct 8, 2015 22:48:46 GMT
The early recordings were littered with flaws, but I found listening to them, although painful at first, allowed me to identify where I was going wrong... Iain A good point there. It's not just the stubs and clangers that are made obvious, but sometimes the musicality of the piece itself. In the early recording days I sometimes did a take of a piece that I thought I had down pat (could play it with no mistakes, up to speed etc) and was horrified to listen back and see how lifeless I'd made it. You start to notice pacing, whether you've got a beat, build of dynamics and so on. It made it clear to me that even simple pieces need some attention and respect, and reminded me of the musical reasons I'd wanted to play the tunes in the first place. By the way, if I'm trying to make a 'keeper' track, I agree that you should never mix/meddle with it on the same day you record it: you'll always hear the strain and effort that went into it before you hear the music. Kym
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Post by andyhowell on Oct 9, 2015 7:04:14 GMT
On a few occasions in my life I have been able to have practice sessions of three hours or more consistently for days. This makes an enormous difference probably the best thing you can do. But then 3 hour sessions are a little difficult in normal life :-)
I record to share although the learning from the recordings is massive. But, just getting your music out there is a significant discipline. Playing live is most effective along its playing with other musicians. But sharing through recording and digital media is pretty useful and something that wasn't easily available to most of us until comparatively recently.
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leoroberts
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Post by leoroberts on Oct 9, 2015 7:30:59 GMT
It will come as no surprise that I don't really practice my playing...
When I've written a song I play it through 2 or three times to make sure it fits and that I can actually breathe while singing (important, that!) Then, before recording, I'll annotate my songsheet to show where I have to put emphasis on words, or take a quick breath or leave a half-gap, or where the line flows straight into the next line so I need to take a longer breath beforehand..
Then I'll try and record it. Sometimes it gets done in one take, sometimes it takes two or three. I usually let the recording just run on til I've got one good enough to post and I edit out the dross.
I realise that this isn't 'advice' that's of any use to you proper players!
The microphone doesn't scare me; audiences scare me.
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Post by vikingblues on Oct 9, 2015 7:34:37 GMT
I think it raises some questions: Why am I recording, for what purpose? Should music be flawless? Why record? :- 1 allowing multi instrument ensemble playing without needing to find (and having to try to work with) other people, 2 it's useful as a record of progress and a guideline to (hopefully) positive progress, 3 to be honest it's a nice boost to the ego to hear something that sounds good and it helps satisfy a need for creativity (more than just in playing) that is lacking in paid employment, 4 I find it difficult to listen critically while I am trying to play creatively. Two different parts of my brain that don't work well at the same time, 5 it helps fine-hone interpretation, and once a decent recording is in place I find some repeated listens help lock the piece in my head, 6 useful double check on how well the rhythm and time-keeping holds up (subject to interpretative rubato etc). It's a definite no from me as to whether music should be flawless. Should music be flawless? I'd rather hear a piece performed with feeling and a couple of gliches than one lacking soul and mistakes. I'll support that idea 120%+! I have often found I prefer live recordings to studio recordings despite the poorer quality of recording and the occasional errors because they often have more passion, feeling, atmosphere and soul. Now if only I could harness those qualities to add to my glitches! It was one of my bugbears about classical guitar lessons - a teacher who wanted 100% note perfect and a pupil that wanted interpretation and feeling. My playing has improved through recording. The early recordings were littered with flaws, but I found listening to them, although painful at first, allowed me to identify where I was going wrong. It allowed me to focus on where I need to improve. Now, a couple of years later, I compare my recent recordings with the earlier ones and can definitely see an improvement. Nothing wrong with making mistakes during recording. Bob Brozman once said "recording is God's way of telling you that your playing sucks" A bit harsh, but includes a semblance of truth Iain Bob Brozman is right, but if it can be harnessed in a positive way to aid improvement rather than just depress it's a good thing. It can occasionally also be God's way of telling you that you've created something worthwhile in this ghastly materialistic uncreative world. It's great when there's a few recordings in the back catalogue which when listened to some time later can startle you .... "did I really manage to do that?". It sometimes difficult to believe it was me playing on an old recording and it seems like I'm listening to someone else - given the way all our body cells die off and get replaced on a regular basis it maybe was effectively a different person. Sorry - it's really too early in the morning for philosophy .... or gibberish. Mark
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Post by vikingblues on Oct 9, 2015 7:40:38 GMT
The microphone doesn't scare me; audiences scare me. A venn digram would show a circle representing an audience and a circle representing me and they wouldn't even be on the same page. They are a totally terrifying thought. Yes a microphone is not so bad at all. BUT .... a camera lens is another matter! Very nearly as bad as an audience. Mark
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Post by andyhowell on Oct 9, 2015 22:06:13 GMT
With practice you can shut the audience out. And the bring them back little by little. To be fair playing live should be fun, terrifying but fun. If it isn't then don't !
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Post by martinrowe on Oct 12, 2015 9:43:16 GMT
Interesting Andy Kershaw radio documentary on the ramshackle way Highway 61 Revisited was recorded: no practice, single takes, flukes, etc, etc. www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b06gtk2l
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Post by creamburmese on Oct 12, 2015 13:22:09 GMT
I've been recording a piece I'm having trouble with over the last week or so in an attempt to figure out which bits need the most work - it's been an interesting experience. After the first 30 times or so (!) I did stop worrying about the red button, which was good. And it identified a lot of things (chopped off notes, uneven flow) I hadn't even been aware of. However something else I found useful was that in trying to inject more life into the piece (rubato, crescendo, decrescendo etc) I was able to track my progress better by looking at the wave form on the recorder. So satisfying to see those neat little hills! The bad news is, I'm not sure it really will help the anxiety in live performance, at least for me. Yesterday I switched from using the iphone to using a microphone and ipad cos I was fed up with the boomy sound my piddling little iphone mic produces. -Much- bigger red button and the nerves came right back again! However I will say they abated more quickly too, so maybe there was some progress there...
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