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Post by martinrowe on Dec 31, 2015 9:34:06 GMT
I found this interesting - especially from 3 minutes onward (it then tails off into a bit of marketing). Marvellous tone. Interesting how she seems to go into the 'zone', even when playing a few notes.
Hope it helps someone.
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brianr2
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Post by brianr2 on Dec 31, 2015 10:42:27 GMT
Absolutely fascinating and well worth watching in full. Her instantaneous absorption into the music is incredible and she shares some wonderful insights and tips.
What an extraordinary woman. She went from aspiring teenage rocket scientist to guitar virtuoso, via lessons with Segovia and Bream, among others. Her eclectic taste in music and collaborations encompass folk, rock and bossa nova, and Steve Vai and Joan Baez. She mentions a documentary about her life and I shall now try to track this down.
Brian
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007
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Post by 007 on Jan 1, 2016 11:49:32 GMT
Excellent Vid thanks for posting
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Post by Andy P on Jan 1, 2016 12:13:10 GMT
Excellent Vid thanks for posting Seconded
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Post by vikingblues on Jan 1, 2016 14:03:40 GMT
Very interesting video. A fine example of how to get the most from a guitar.
Fascinating too to see her pointing out the improvisational element that would have been used at the time with a lot of classical pieces. Total contrast to the "everything must be played exactly as it is" dogma of many classical guitar enthusiasts and teachers.
Mark
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Post by jonnymosco on Jan 1, 2016 15:37:52 GMT
Really worth watching when she's talking about technique, the rest could have been edited a bit.
I love the way she immediately became absorbed in her playing for the examples. The 'more fingers vibrato' is also useful.
Having recently acquired a double-top classical, I can vouch for their power and presence, the choice of many concert guitarists for a reason. I've played a double top steel string and it didn't really work well which is a shame as it's a great concept.
Jonny
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Post by missclarktree on Jan 1, 2016 20:14:40 GMT
Call me a killjoy/wet blanket/pourer of cold water, and who am I to comment anyway. But at the risk of being lynched . . .
I can't help wondering if the admiration of her going into 'the zone' is anything to do with her being an attractive lady, and would people be so tolerant of a man doing it? The closed eyes, raised eyebrows and swaying about routine seems to be encouraged in classical instrumentalists, especially pianists, but you don't see John Williams carrying on like that! Yes, Julian Bream was notorious for his grimacing and adopting what looked like tortuous postures, but I'm convinced it was genuine and unself-conscious, not like the other which seems to me like an affectation.
On the point about having to stick to what's written, a lot of baroque notation is already an elaborated arrangement of a much sparser original manuscript. Personally I prefer something a bit more subtle, and the same for the vibrato which sounds excessive to my ears (though I'm sure most will disagree).
I admire and envy her control over the sounds that she produces, but to my down to earth ears it seems over the top. Is it because I'm a northerner?
Here's a film of Benjamin Verdery, in my opinion best listened to without the visuals. I'd love to know how people react to this:-
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Post by jonnymosco on Jan 2, 2016 0:29:38 GMT
Not as annoying as his shirt! He's been listening to Gary Ryan.
Jonny
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Post by martinrowe on Jan 2, 2016 6:56:29 GMT
Call me a killjoy/wet blanket/pourer of cold water, and who am I to comment anyway. But at the risk of being lynched . . . I can't help wondering if the admiration of her going into 'the zone' is anything to do with her being an attractive lady, and would people be so tolerant of a man doing it? The closed eyes, raised eyebrows and swaying about routine seems to be encouraged in classical instrumentalists, especially pianists, but you don't see John Williams carrying on like that! Yes, Julian Bream was notorious for his grimacing and adopting what looked like tortuous postures, but I'm convinced it was genuine and unself-conscious, not like the other which seems to me like an affectation. You probably have a point about 'attractiveness'. Wasn't it ever thus. Here's Chris Thile playing Bach - seems genuine. What are we talking about here? The pleasure that after all of those hours of practice you are able to make a sound that means something?
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brianr2
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Post by brianr2 on Jan 2, 2016 9:08:43 GMT
For me, it was less about her appearance as such than the portrayal of someone completely absorbed by music. Whatever genre appreals to each of us, there is something special about being transported to different level of feeling. Even as a cynical northerner myself - and looking past the heavy-handed advertising that is the norm these days - that is what I hoped I was seeing.
Brian
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Phil Taylor
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Post by Phil Taylor on Jan 2, 2016 9:42:00 GMT
None of the "closed eyes, raised eyebrows and swaying about" examples in the above videos seem at all excessive and what is more important to me none of it detracts from the enjoyment of the performance. Lets face it, these musicians are all virtuoso. I make 'faces' when I play and most of them are involuntary but I endeavour not to use any videos showing it because I'm crap and it would look like I don't realise the fact. If some do it and others don't then fine it's not a problem to me. Just watch one of my fave performers, Clive Carroll, in this video and you will see everything ie sucking a toffee, many facial expressions, exaggerated movements including an element not touched on here - humour Phil
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Post by missclarktree on Jan 2, 2016 10:24:25 GMT
Both the Chris Thile and the Clive Carroll vids do strike me as genuine (by the way, I loved the Clive Carroll piece) and I suppose the main ingredient in the annoyance factor is whether it is perceived as genuine. Maybe I'm wrong, but Sharon Isbin's movements and expressions didn't seem genuine to me. I got the feeling that she'd do that even when playing scales.
On the other point, I wanted to defend classical players against the accusation of sticking rigidly to the notes, especially in baroque music. Here's some very different examples of one of my favourite baroque tunes.
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Post by jonnymosco on Jan 2, 2016 12:42:46 GMT
We'll never know if Isbin's 'getting into the zone' is genuine or not, even if it is put on perhaps it helps her to play.
I think our grade system here in the UK encourages students to just learn set pieces where improvisation isn't a factor. Throughout the history of music, improvisation has been an important part of performance, at its height during the Baroque with preludes and cadenzas - within a structure of course.
The Canarios is an interesting choice, so many versions exist, perhaps because it was a well known dance - originally the transcribers improvised on the theme and then the examples above show guitarists reading those transcriptions I'm guessing. My favourite version is from the book 'Luz Y Norte' by Lucas Ruiz de Ribayaz.
I don't care much for Isbin's Vivaldi improvisation, she made an effort though. Funny that she regularly opens her eyes and has a peek to see she's in the right position... so it must be an affectation. Why does she have to look anyway?
Jonny
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Post by vikingblues on Jan 2, 2016 17:22:36 GMT
On the other point, I wanted to defend classical players against the accusation of sticking rigidly to the notes, especially in baroque music. I don't think I've seen very much of the doctrine of sticking rigidly to the notes from players themselves, but certainly I've seen a lot from the "classical guitar enthusiasts and teachers" I referred to in my earlier post. So many can't even abide rubato for heavens sake, let alone improvisational aspects. I know of someone who has to listen to Segovia on headphones because her husband, also a classical guitarist, can't stand him due to the rubato. On the plus side I do get the impression that there has been a a movement away a bit from the rigid play the notes exactly as they are doctrine over the last 10+ years or so. It's a pet hate of mine and a hobby horse I jump on to be honest - I think it just still rankles with me from classical guitar lessons times when I went along with the dogma because of being too embarrassed to argue about it. Mark
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Post by martinrowe on Jan 2, 2016 17:52:41 GMT
Interesting that this thread seemed to concentrate on the 'zone' and classical interpretation. Whether or not she is genuinely 'feeling' the music is interesting but those moments when you've realised that you did something that 'got through' to you, visible reaction or not, is, for me, the most interesting part of all this.
The first thing that 'got me' in this video was the concentration on tone and the thought process around this - and, I'd assume, the amount of experimentation involved in this. I'm learning the mandolin at the moment and often the temptation seems to be to try to learn too quickly, rather than to play slowly and to make the sound that I want to hear.
Thanks for all the posts so far in reply to this, they've made me think.
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