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Post by andyhowell on Jul 16, 2016 10:36:51 GMT
I’ve been meaning to get down to the North American Guitar (TNAG), and Michael Watts, for a couple of years now. I’ve in-laws not far away in West London and in my twenties I lived locally, seemingly spending all my time in Putney, Parsons Green and Fulham — probably because then this was the hub of much of the UK music scene (certainly the folk rock world) A weekend trip and a pretty lean time work-wise gave me the obvious opportunity.TNAG is located just off the Munster Road in a new and refurbished little funky estate, if that isn’t an odd way of describing a commercial estate. You ring what looks like the doorbell of flat and are shown into a lovely, spacious room. Those guitars are hanging on the wall of course, but somehow the ambience is more of a creative industry office than a guitar store. First things first. After giving me a nice cup of coffee, Michael ushered me on to the famous sofa (actually there are two of them). “What I’m going to do is throw a load of guitars at you”. In many ways TNAG — like Dream Guitars and TAMCO — reflects the coming of age of the steel string guitar. These operations go beyond whatever you would find in even the best music stores here. Certainly this is true when we consider price. In a place like Ivor Mairant’s you find a lot of guitars in the £3-5K range and some a bit higher than that; what you don’t get are instruments that cost £10-£15K and even more. In the classical world these kind of prices are common place. A good and aspiring musician will expect to a lot of money for their instrument as it is their primary tool of their trade; this is as important a purchase as not so much their first car but their first house. The best steel string guitars now are in this range. They are very, very, serious instruments. But do they sound that much better? I was curious to find out. I should say upfront that I’m not a stranger to decent steel string guitars. I own three very good guitars, the prices of which always cause surprise top non musicians. I’ve also played my far share of Sobell’s, Bown’s, Lowden’s and so on, not to mention all of the well known ‘boutique’ brands. But TNAG represented a journey into the unknown. Before I talk about the individual guitars I’ll offer some wider reflections and observations. All of the guitars I played were finger style guitars. I’m sure many of them are very versatile but they have been picked out and chosen for their finger style ‘playability’. The guitars were, indeed, all comfortable to play. The profiles of the necks, while different, all seemed perfect and the fingerboard widths were generous. The guitars also changed my perception of woods, particularly of mahogany. Over the years I have played some mahogany guitars that stick in the mind. More often than not these are great ragtime and country blues guitars but they have never been all rounders. Whenever I’ve been in the position to choose I’ve gone down the rosewood route. But these mahogany instruments were very different. In the hands of a talented builder they have air and space to them, great sustain and so on. Many of my favourite guitars from this session were mahogany and I’d never have thought that before hand! Michael’s technique seems to be to start with the more modest guitars and gradually move you up the scale. This not only allows you to appreciate the difference in quality but, I suspect, also allows him to assess your own styles and to help him make the next guitar choices. You are on your own. There are no other guitar players nearby in competitive mode and there is no near-deaf punk around the corner hammering out shred guitar. You have time to play each instrument, open the tunings if you want, and so on. I think I was playing guitars for over two hours. We started with a Bourgeois 000 in mahogany. Bourgeois — along with Santa Cruz, Collings and the like — have built on and refined the traditional American steel string sound. In any one of our better guitars stores (Mairant’s, Celtic Chords, Forsyth’s and so on) this guitar would have stood out. Here is was a very nice guitar but was essentially our starting point and, if I’m frank, the journey humbled the it somewhat. Next up it was Froggy Bottom M in mahogany. A long time ago I played one of these in Ivor Mairant’s. It has stayed with me over all these years. The store manager at the time said that the guitar was an almost perfect match for my style which back then was very ragtime and country blues focussed. This new Froggy Bottom M was every good as I remembered and then some. It has a gorgeous tone and incredibly responsive to the touch which is what you want for that kind of music. There was no need to work particularly hard — or play loud — to make a real impression. It was so lovely that I found myself not only playing but singing Hesitation Blues — the singing seemed to help me appreciate the whole thing. But I also had time tune down to DADGAD and the M was more than at home here. A lovely guitar. Next up was a Froggy Bottom K, the instrument that Will Ackerman has been playing for years. We’d left the mahogany behind now. This was an immediately impressive and big sounding guitar yet still as light and easy to play as the M. There were overtones and harmonics everywhere so much so that I realised that you needed real skill to tame them. This is a great guitar that I played for a while, however, I never really felt I was in control of it. But if you play contemporary fingerstyle that doesn’t depend on dramatic attack this could be your dream instrument. It seemed to me to be more Tony McManus than Martin Simpson if you get my drift. The K is about £11K and the M £5.5K Next up was a 00 or concert sized guitar from Jeff Bamburg; Michael and I had already had a good chat about smaller sized guitars not least in the context of the new model being built for him by Jason Kostal. This didn’t jump down my throat like the Froggy K but it was lovely and the more I played it the more I fell in love with it. A lower bout of 15” and 24.9 scale make this very comfortable and exceptionally playable. At £7K this seemed something of a bargain and, for me at least, this knocks the spots similarly priced Lowden’s. For a long time Mairant’s had a de Jong guitar about this price but this was a far better specimen. I could easily have taken this home. After a few more guitars we were coming to the end of the session. Michael said there were two more guitars that I should play just to say that I had played them. The first of these was a Greenfield. This is the G1 that is described as the transitional guitar, one of the first made with the bracing system that has now become some famous. As such this is a snip at £12.5 K. These days Greenfield’s models start at around £15K. I’d not played a Greenfield before but immediately I found myself saying to Michael. ”Ah, so this is what it is all about.” To say this was a ‘big sound’ would be an understatement. It was incredibly rich and dynamic and very loud. This is a guitar that urges you to give it some welly or beat the shit out of it. This is not guitar for sweet, delicate, little fingerpickers. In many ways it reminded me of many of the Sobell’s I have played, which I often think are not the easiest of guitars to play. You have to have a really good technique to make the Sobell’s sing and this Greenfield has something of this about it. The last guitar was the one that literally stopped me in my tracks and took my breath away. This requires a post all of it’s own. I’m not teasing but it will take me a little longer to think about how to put it all into words! Before I finished Michael gave me his own Kostal to play. It is a very interesting instrument and, again, has mahogany back and sides. The sound of the instrument didn’t jump right out at me as some of the others had. (This is a quality I’ve become suspicious of over the years — something that sounds great and wonderful in a store can become a bit tiring and overpowering over an extended play.) It sounded nice though. As I played it I realised that this guitar had been built for a player of great technique and finesse, which Michael is of course. You can play it soft but the Kostal also has masses of headroom. I played a DADGAD scale down the neck. The intonation was simply marvellous, each note as clear and of consistent volume has you moved down the neck. This is a concert instrument and not one for a hack picker like me but I was really pleased to have had the experience. This is a remarkable guitar. So, it was a great day. To understand just what these makers are doing you really have to spend time with the instruments. Was that Greenfield better than that Froggy K for a similar price? Well, the answer is a very personal one and very much dependent on your own playing style and musical preference I suspect. You need to have the space and time to make your own judgement (unless you are a collector) Finally, you get to spend some time with Michael himself. He is a great host, makes you feel at home. He doesn’t intrude too much and he doesn’t play and intimidate you! His album — which is superb — is almost ready and the new guitar build coming along nicely! SaveSaveSaveSaveSaveSaveSaveSaveSaveSave
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Phil Taylor
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Post by Phil Taylor on Jul 16, 2016 12:47:39 GMT
I have to say well done Andy, excellent read But what about THAT guitar andyhowell................... Phil Ps can't wait for the CD michaelwatts and I would like a signed copy please
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brianr2
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My main instrument is: Fylde Goodfellow
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Post by brianr2 on Jul 16, 2016 13:48:41 GMT
Excellent review and testimony to the joy of dealing with an empathetic musician who knows what real customer service is about. This is not just down to price: I have been into shops trying to sell expensive guitars where you are treated likely an unwelcome distraction by salespeople who know little about their projects. Michael, TAMCO et al deserve to thrive for the dreams they fuel and the GAS they stimulate!
Brian
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Post by vikingblues on Jul 18, 2016 18:55:14 GMT
It sounds like a wonderful experience. To be guided by someone who really knows their subject adds so much to the experience and is far removed form so many shops where any expertise is in the electric field and acoustic guitars are just an afterthought.
I found your comment ... "There were overtones and harmonics everywhere so much so that I realised that you needed real skill to tame them. This is a great guitar that I played for a while." ... particularly rang bells. It's an area that I feel guitar reviewers often ignore, and that we, when trying out guitars in shops, ignore at our peril.
I also think you have a great piece of advice for us all in your comment ... "a quality I’ve become suspicious of over the years — something that sounds great and wonderful in a store can become a bit tiring and overpowering over an extended play".
Excellent review, but ooooh, the tension. What is the special one?!
Mark
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Post by andyhowell on Jul 19, 2016 8:02:02 GMT
Mark,
this 'instant on' quality is something you have to guard against with Hi Fi as well! I once bought a new HI FI system (not ridiculous money) from a wet thought of UK manufacturer only to realise that I didn't like the sound of its CD Player. I then found I stopped listening to music!
The guitar I was referring to with the overtones was the Froggy Bottom K. It might have been the best guitar in the store but it was complex. This might have been partially because of my use of a thumb pic but I thought the bass was particularly difficult to control. If I was seriously interested in this I think I would have asked to take it home for a day or two. I would have had to know wether it was worth £13K
Some guitars seem better suited to my technique than others and I guess this will be the same for all of us. As I hinted the Greenfield (from what I learnt) was simply not for me. However, just that one afternoon has made me more receptive to the non rosewood woods.
I found going through the luthier build process pretty daunting but ultimately a better experience I think.
To be fair though, if this is the world you are looking at a dealer like TNAG or TAMCO is a must simply because they are prepared to go the extra mile to ensure their customers find the right guitar from them.
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Post by ourmaninthenorth on Jul 19, 2016 9:59:46 GMT
Thanks for the narrative, a pleasure to read. Here's my Lowden being played by the very man in question....
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Post by vikingblues on Jul 20, 2016 7:48:04 GMT
Mark, this 'instant on' quality is something you have to guard against with Hi Fi as well! I once bought a new HI FI system (not ridiculous money) from a wet thought of UK manufacturer only to realise that I didn't like the sound of its CD Player. I then found I stopped listening to music! The guitar I was referring to with the overtones was the Froggy Bottom K. It might have been the best guitar in the store but it was complex. This might have been partially because of my use of a thumb pic but I thought the bass was particularly difficult to control. If I was seriously interested in this I think I would have asked to take it home for a day or two. I would have had to know wether it was worth £13K Some guitars seem better suited to my technique than others and I guess this will be the same for all of us. As I hinted the Greenfield (from what I learnt) was simply not for me. However, just that one afternoon has made me more receptive to the non rosewood woods. I found going through the luthier build process pretty daunting but ultimately a better experience I think. To be fair though, if this is the world you are looking at a dealer like TNAG or TAMCO is a must simply because they are prepared to go the extra mile to ensure their customers find the right guitar from them. Your comment on Hi-Fi put me in mind of afternoons spent many years ago in Russ Andrews High Fidelity shop in Edinburgh doing comparison testing of various Hi-Fi separates. I recall it being an even more confusing task than comparing guitars. Like guitars too, the sound could be quite different when the same gear was used in a different location .. i.e at home! I believe you're right that you would need a trial of at least a couple of days for a guitar like that Froggy Bottom if you felt it might be a difficult guitar to master. Or there's that danger of having a high quality guitar with great potential just sitting in its case unplayed - no good guitar deserves that fate. A dealer that has that extra expertise and that as you can say "go the extra mile" is an essential at these sort of price levels. You certainly want more than the "it's good innit" level of analysis of acoustics I find at some of the more downmarket guitar shops. Mark
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Post by andyhowell on Jul 20, 2016 15:56:22 GMT
I suppose the thing that I'm considering is that many of these guitars are master player instruments. They are going to bought up by either collectors (enough said about them) or people who have the technique to really make them sing. I've always been relaxed about this. People ask, don't they, should I aspire to this guitar because my technique is modest? My answer has always been of course — if you can afford it a great guitar will you to inspire to play and achieve more. A good guitar is your muse. But — and thinking about myself — last week made me question this thinking at the top end of the scale. Could I ever really do one thos high end guitars justice? (Well I could on the Casimi ;-) ) SaveSave
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Post by ourmaninthenorth on Jul 21, 2016 11:22:15 GMT
I've always considered myself to be the weak link in the chain, acoustic, electric, amps et al.... however, if I can misuse the term "headroom" for a moment, then I consider great guitars to have the headroom - and by that I mean intrinsic quality waiting to be brought out by the player, that's up to me as the player to try and bring out. After 4 decades my "success" has been..ahem...somewhat limited, the sheer joy however has been boundless. My love affair with guitars, and that's what it is, is about moving into a place of expression, regardless of talent. There is nothing like roaming into the wide open spaces and sheer potential that a great guitar can offer. Sadly that idea meets the real world, and a lot of scratch has to be put on the table to acquire said quality. It's just the game we're all in. There hasn't been a guitar built that I perceive to be too good for my playing. Arrogance? No. Just a personal position of not confusing cost with value. The value of these instruments..well you just can't buy. Confused? Join the bloody club...
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Post by vikingblues on Jul 21, 2016 18:10:18 GMT
I like your post ourmaninthenorth but I wish I could have that same view of my shortcomings as a player being compatible with playing a really good guitar. I'm afraid that in my case I find that the flaws in my music making that result from my inability to control a great guitars extra responsiveness, and my inability to add warmth to the guitars expressiveness, spoils my enjoyment and in the end results in a guitar shut in it's case for most of the time. A sad fate for any guitar, but doubly so for a great one. Maybe I just haven't been lucky enough to have found a proper match for what passes for playing abilities. But as retirement appears on the horizon, and the pension fund struggles to survive, an expensive purchase is way off the radar anyway. So I can avoid worrying about maybe missing out. Mark
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Post by martinrowe on Jul 21, 2016 18:16:39 GMT
I went to a Simon Mayor mandolin workshop a while ago. I got there early and had a chance to speak with him when he was setting up. He plays a Mike Vanden mandolin (expensive). I asked him why a Vanden and his answer was interesting. He said 'because it's like a blank canvas', and looked at me quizzically to see if I understood what he meant. I think what he meant was that it is good for everything, not one particular style i.e. classical, bluegrass, folk, celtic, etc: that it is up to the player to draw the sounds from the instrument, and that it will deliver what you want it to. By extension, the instrument is a tool for the musician, not the other way around.
I find it an interesting thought that, sort of, fits in this thread.. Is that the sign that an instrument is top class - that it's a 'blank canvas'?
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Post by vikingblues on Jul 21, 2016 18:40:46 GMT
I went to a Simon Mayor mandolin workshop a while ago. I got there early and had a chance to speak with him when he was setting up. He plays a Mike Vanden mandolin (expensive). I asked him why a Vanden and his answer was interesting. He said 'because it's like a blank canvas', and looked at me quizzically to see if I understood what he meant. I think what he meant was that it is good for everything, not one particular style i.e. classical, bluegrass, folk, celtic, etc: that it is up to the player to draw the sounds from the instrument, and that it will deliver what you want it to. By extension, the instrument is a tool for the musician, not the other way around. I find it an interesting thought that, sort of, fits in this thread.. Is that the sign that an instrument is top class - that it's a 'blank canvas'? That final thought of yours ties in with what nkforster said on a thread about loudness in guitars here on the forum when I was trying to work out my problems with my then Lowden. "Making a clear sounding guitar means the player is not limited by the instrument but by their own sensitivities"He was comparing the warmth of tone, which limits the players range, built in to the lower budget guitars, with the need for the player to bring warmth to the tones of the high quality clear sounding guitars. So yes - it's that blank canvas you mention Martin. That comment is in a blog of Nigels about weight and loudness of his guitars here. I found it a very illuminating read and very helpful. Mark
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Post by ourmaninthenorth on Jul 21, 2016 19:44:26 GMT
I like your post ourmaninthenorth but I wish I could have that same view of my shortcomings as a player being compatible with playing a really good guitar. I'm afraid that in my case I find that the flaws in my music making that result from my inability to control a great guitars extra responsiveness, and my inability to add warmth to the guitars expressiveness, spoils my enjoyment and in the end results in a guitar shut in it's case for most of the time. A sad fate for any guitar, but doubly so for a great one. Maybe I just haven't been lucky enough to have found a proper match for what passes for playing abilities. But as retirement appears on the horizon, and the pension fund struggles to survive, an expensive purchase is way off the radar anyway. So I can avoid worrying about maybe missing out. Mark Mark, I completely understand where you're coming from. Thank you for your thoughtful post. I still own one of the greatest guitars ever made, the acoustic I started out on in 1976 as a 12 year old boy. The Japanese Tea Chest makers must have been on a tea break when this piece of garbage snook through the net and ended up guitar shaped; and yet, from the very humblest of beginnings I learned my "trade". Trying to emulate Paul Kossoff on an acoustic with piano wire sized strings, if nothing else, gave me wrists that you could wrestle a bear with. My inevitable move to electrics was a piece of cake, whilst my peers were struggling for those whole note bends on their slinky stringed electrics, I'd been doing that on my acoustic for years. I was a legend in my own pentatonic box (room). I think the point I'm trying to make, if indeed it is a point rather than a discussion is this - I have the same hang ups as every guitarist I've ever met, am I good enough (for whom)? are they better (than what)? should I have took up the trombone instead (why would anyone)? - As an aside, the first time I saw Tommy Emmanuel play in a dingy little boozer in Manchester in front of 40 people, I actually questioned whether I should have took up fishing, and left music to the musicians. I view it this way, any guitar in any guitar players hands is going to start a narrative, be it to oneself or an audience, it doesn't matter. As we as people become more interested in our subject, we tend to go on voyages of discovery...a credit card being our chief companion. I personally have doubled back, I'm down to the absolute bone gear wise. I own two guitars, both are played daily, both have repaid their outlay a million fold. I yearn for nothing, am jealous of nobody, don't need the next great white hope guitar...it hasn't always been that way for me. Play what you love, and love what you play. The end result of 40 years worth of toil? I can say with absolute certainty that I am the best guitar player in my house.
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Post by vikingblues on Jul 21, 2016 21:39:09 GMT
'Play what you love, and love what you play'. That's what I call a good motto Sir! The guitar is a beautiful friend. Various members of the guitar tribe over the years have seriously helped me to stay sane and made me feel there was some purpose to my intellect. A really great guitar encourages creativity and helps you play your best, however humble its origins. Obviously if you can find something of much higher quality like a Casimi that will do that, then it's a huge bonus! Sorry Andy - I've encouraged this thread to go a bit off topic. Mark
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Post by andyhowell on Jul 22, 2016 7:15:37 GMT
I went to a Simon Mayor mandolin workshop a while ago. I got there early and had a chance to speak with him when he was setting up. He plays a Mike Vanden mandolin (expensive). I asked him why a Vanden and his answer was interesting. He said 'because it's like a blank canvas', and looked at me quizzically to see if I understood what he meant. I think what he meant was that it is good for everything, not one particular style i.e. classical, bluegrass, folk, celtic, etc: that it is up to the player to draw the sounds from the instrument, and that it will deliver what you want it to. By extension, the instrument is a tool for the musician, not the other way around. I find it an interesting thought that, sort of, fits in this thread.. Is that the sign that an instrument is top class - that it's a 'blank canvas'? That is exactly how I would describe Michael Watts' guitar. It is also one of the qualities I like about the guitar Adrian Lucas made me. Sometimes the sound characteristic of a very resonant guitar seems to always lead you in a certain direction. I can understand Simon's comments. Mike Vanden is a very interesting guy. I'm currently debating whether to get hold of one of his new Kudos pickups. SaveSave
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