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Post by Deleted on Apr 23, 2013 17:18:05 GMT
Andy's thread on Headway, and the announcement that that they will be revamping their shire king range got me thinking about acoustic amps in general, and I wondered what other people's experience is?
Are they a necessary evil? When people gig do they just plug into whatever's going? Do people rather spend money on a good preamp to plug into whatever passes for a PA at the venue?
What do people look for in an acoustic amp? Many these days seem to come with a lot of unnecessary stuff in my mind- do I really want a delay effect where I can't even control the delay time or number of repeats? Never seen the point of chorus, let alone flanger.
Here for what its worth is my experience and thoughts:
Firstly, I used to own a very nice LR Baggs amp, so am looking for something to replace it (and a bit cheaper too!) Currently I have no real need for one as I always seem to either play purely acoustically at folk clubs, or plug into other people's amps. I'm lucky in that these have been quite nice so far (AER and Bose mainly).
So far these are the ones I've tried and played through:
AER- compact 60 in particular. A nice, crystal clear amp, that nevertheless always seem to struggle somewhat with a low C on my Tavy. Sometimes wish there were more controls- I was really in need of a phase invert button when I played through one recently. Always seem far too expensive for me for what you are getting.
Fishman Loudbox Artist- very nice hi fi sound, with sensible controls, and one or two usable effects. Nice and loud, and one of the more interesting looking amps on the market. Good price too. Seriously considering this one. Sounded much better than my Baggs.
Rivera Sedona Lite- so far my ultimate amp. Made my low C tuned Tavy sounded positively huge and majestic. Very loud (being valve driven) and generally not too coloured. Good size speaker will mean it will cope with low tunings. But...very expensive, though I do have the chance to buy one for the same price as a compact 60.
Vox 70 watt (forget the exact model)- made my guitar sound absolutely awful, so literally only played it for less than a minute. Very boxy sounding and far too coloured. Not in the same league as the loud box.
So, I know maybe amps are pretty boring for some people, but I'd be interested in hearing other people's thoughts about how they make themselves louder!
Robbie
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Post by grayn on Apr 23, 2013 17:33:05 GMT
The Bose L1 or Fishman SoloAmp are amazing but a bit pricey.
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Post by ocarolan on Apr 23, 2013 17:45:39 GMT
Good thread start Robbie!  I prefer to use PA (mine) wherever possible for the ease of obtaining a natural sound, and the spread of sound. Guitar - K&K preamp - PA. If I have to use a venue's unknown PA (not often lately) then things can be a bit more pot-luck, though I set my preamp so the venue desk eq can hopefully be flat and I try to be very nice indeed to whoever is twiddling the knobs. I'm not a huge fan of combos but if I do use my AER combo I always mount it on a mic stand at around waist height and keep it a few feet to one side of me and slightly behind. I still use my K&K preamp for fingertip control in the playing position. It's a superb amp, but, like many combos, sounds dreadful at close range - it needs a few feet for the sound to be heard anything like properly. For quiet venues it is possible to use the amp on a chair in front of me, or well to the side, and have one mic to pick up guitar and voice together(if sitting, or two mics if standing), avoiding plugging the guitar in at all. In the right situation this can give a very natural sound with very little fuss. It is very pleasant to play this way, and with the right mic , is almost like playing completely acoustically. In the wrong situation it simply won't work! Keith |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 23, 2013 18:24:38 GMT
The Bose L1 or Fishman SoloAmp are amazing but a bit pricey. Yes, I would agree about the Bose. When I played through one the sound was huge! Huge price too. Would love to try the Fishman. I was told by one retailer that the early ones suffered from break down problems, which have since been fixed. However, this has also corresponded with a price hike I see! Robbie |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 23, 2013 18:31:45 GMT
I'm not a huge fan of combos but if I do use my AER combo I always mount it on a mic stand at around waist height and keep it a few feet to one side of me and slightly behind. I still use my K&K preamp for fingertip control in the playing position. It's a superb amp, but, like many combos, sounds dreadful at close range - it needs a few feet for the sound to be heard anything like properly. Keith Interesting observation Keith, and echoes my recent experience in using this amp at a gig. On the floor (wooden) it was very brash but placed on a table it was much better (obvious really!) Also it sounded better the further away I was, as you have also observed. Another question/ observation- I seem to much prefer it when the amp simply blends in with my natural guitar sound to create a sound that is very accurate, but just slightly louder than the guitar, almost as if the amp actually disappears. This seems to be quite difficult to do, but I have played through AERs where this has just about happened, and the loudbox I played through recently. All told creating a nice live sound seems to be a very fine balancing act- having the amp far away enough so that the sound has chance to bloom and blend in, but not too far that it sounds like you are playing something thats 12 foot away from you! Robbie |
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Post by ocarolan on Apr 24, 2013 14:41:31 GMT
...................... Another question/ observation- I seem to much prefer it when the amp simply blends in with my natural guitar sound to create a sound that is very accurate, but just slightly louder than the guitar, almost as if the amp actually disappears............. Robbie A Fishman Soloamp was the most transparent amp I've tried - seemed to fill the room effortlessly and evenly with sound - non-directional and not overloud at the front or too quiet at the back. Also not too loud to the player when near to it. Very much liked it! Haven't tried the Bose L1 properly, but would like to! Keith |
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Post by andyhowell on Apr 24, 2013 21:56:40 GMT
Agree that the Fishman Solo has great sound - stunning really for what it is. In my view it is a better bet than the Bose simply because it has XLR inputs on both channels whereas the Bose only has one plus 1/4 jack, unless you buy an expensive add-on.
I also agree with Keith about using a PA. Was going to buy my own years ago and really wish I had!
Robbie makes a good point about open tunings and low C - which I tend to live in! This is where I thinnk the new Headway Amps would score well as Headway seemed tuned in to trad music - I have a Headway Pre Amp the manual of which specifically refers to guitars with low C or D!
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Post by mrcrump on Apr 25, 2013 15:59:45 GMT
For a cheaper option, before you write off Vox, try the A150 version - it's much better than the 70watt one I reckon - much more natural and warm. Not in the same league as the Bose or the Fishman of course as it's not really designed as a one man PA, but pretty good for a bit of sound reinforcement or as a monitor and about a quarter of the price.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 4, 2013 19:21:44 GMT
Well, finally took the plunge. I am rejoining my church band after taking a year off, and find myself in need of an amp more than ever. I knew that, with the utterly fantastic deal I was being offered on the Rivera Sedona lite, if I did not take it up whilst having the chance I would regret it in years to come. Too many times in the past I have sold stuff on only to see the price rocket (a couple of years ago I sold my Trace Elliot TA 30 to a friend for £40! I now see 2nd hand ones fetching over £300  ) It makes a change to be able to buy a fantastic bit of kit at a truly giveaway price! Anyway, deal done, I'm off to the shop tomorrow to pick her up. 55Watts of pure EL34 tone- can't wait to reacquaint myself with the wonderful tone of my baritone Tavy through this beauty. The sound of that low C through the 12" speaker is something that has haunted me ever since I played it 12 months ago! I'll report back how I get on, Robbie |
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Post by Phil Taylor on Jun 5, 2013 8:16:04 GMT
Well, finally took the plunge. I am rejoining my church band after taking a year off, and find myself in need of an amp more than ever. I knew that, with the utterly fantastic deal I was being offered on the Rivera Sedona lite, if I did not take it up whilst having the chance I would regret it in years to come. Too many times in the past I have sold stuff on only to see the price rocket (a couple of years ago I sold my Trace Elliot TA 30 to a friend for £40! I now see 2nd hand ones fetching over £300 ) It makes a change to be able to buy a fantastic bit of kit at a truly giveaway price! Anyway, deal done, I'm off to the shop tomorrow to pick her up. 55Watts of pure EL34 tone- can't wait to reacquaint myself with the wonderful tone of my baritone Tavy through this beauty. The sound of that low C through the 12" speaker is something that has haunted me ever since I played it 12 months ago! I'll report back how I get on, Robbie Good luck with the purchase and I look forward to hear how you get on with it. Cheers Phil |
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Post by jwdaubney on Jun 10, 2013 13:08:02 GMT
Good thread start Robbie! I prefer to use PA (mine) wherever possible for the ease of obtaining a natural sound, and the spread of sound. Guitar - K&K preamp - PA. If I have to use a venue's unknown PA (not often lately) then things can be a bit more pot-luck, though I set my preamp so the venue desk eq can hopefully be flat and I try to be very nice indeed to whoever is twiddling the knobs. I'm not a huge fan of combos but if I do use my AER combo I always mount it on a mic stand at around waist height and keep it a few feet to one side of me and slightly behind. I still use my K&K preamp for fingertip control in the playing position. It's a superb amp, but, like many combos, sounds dreadful at close range - it needs a few feet for the sound to be heard anything like properly. For quiet venues it is possible to use the amp on a chair in front of me, or well to the side, and have one mic to pick up guitar and voice together(if sitting, or two mics if standing), avoiding plugging the guitar in at all. In the right situation this can give a very natural sound with very little fuss. It is very pleasant to play this way, and with the right mic , is almost like playing completely acoustically. In the wrong situation it simply won't work! Keith Keith, Do you own the AER compact 60w? If so would you recommend it? I'm not sure whether to look into a PA system for amplifying my guitar or looking into a small but powerful acoustic amp. Which ever one I need it to fill out big rooms if possible. I had a look at the fishman SA220 PA system which seemed very nice. Does anyone own one? I'm after the most natural clear acoustic sound I can find. James |
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Post by ocarolan on Jun 10, 2013 13:26:37 GMT
James, I have the AER Alpha. It is great at what it does, and for a v portable high quality sound it is hard to beat, though expensive. The Compact 60 has separate eq for each channel, whereas the Alpha has a shared eq - not a problem for me as I use the amp eq to get the vocal right, then tailor the guitar sound with my guitars external preamp.
I don't own a SA220, but have tried one - much better sound projection and dispersion than the AER combo. Ideal for guitar/vocal duties, and I'd quite like one! More flexible in use than the AER I guess.
Keith
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Post by jwdaubney on Jun 10, 2013 13:29:18 GMT
Thanks Keith,
As I don't sing what you personally recommend for a solo guitarist? An amp or a PA?
Thanks
James
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Post by ocarolan on Jun 10, 2013 13:37:05 GMT
Thanks Keith, As I don't sing what you personally recommend for a solo guitarist? An amp or a PA? Thanks James Presumably you'll still need a mic channel to make announcements and speak to the punters...? It depends on your priorities re convenience/portability/sound quality/projection/dispersion etc. For a small and quietish venue I tend to use my AER, but PA is the way to go for really decent sound in a larger/noisier venue - the Fishman is superb at filling a room evenly with sound - ie it reaches to the back without being too loud at the front, or for the player, and it disperses the sound laterally a lot better than combos. It is also a good compromise between the easy portability of small combos and the much more onerous task of lugging a full PA around. Hope that helps. Keith |
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Post by jwdaubney on Jun 10, 2013 20:33:33 GMT
Ah that's true. Thanks for your help, it certainly seems like the PA system is the way to go for me.
James
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) It makes a change to be able to buy a fantastic bit of kit at a truly giveaway price!
