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Post by vikingblues on Aug 4, 2018 18:25:43 GMT
Which just confirmed to me yet again that the guitar influences the player as well as the player influencing the guitar.
The guitar guides you to play to it's strengths and if it's strengths don't suit the style of music you're trying to make then the end result will be less than it should be.
It also confirmed how important rhythm is in the identity of a particular piece of music. The same notes and same scale can be turned into very different end material.
An interesting technique of Pierre Bensusan's that I have not tried, is that he has a strap on the guitar that goes round behind him. This allows him by pushing and pulling the neck to get vibrato on open strings - which on an open tuning gives the possibility of more variation in many notes being played.
That's certainly true about the guitars! A cedar should resonate more than mahogany (I hesitate to say that as Dave will probably put me right again) but I know what you mean. I've clocked the strap thing before; he's not the only person to do it. Personally I just find this uncomfortable and inhibiting. Lawrence Juber has an interesting take on this which he calls the virtual Whammy bar. Basically, he plays a note and then takes the right arm where it rests open the body and moves this up and down to get a vibrato effect. This does work although I don't use it that much. I prefer to simply use vibrato on strings that I am fingering. If you google Lawrence Uber whammy bar you'll find several videos where he explains it. This seems more intuitive to me. Bensusan is in many ways a law unto himself! Cedar top guitars often seem to be recommended for fingerstyle guitarists who play lightly due to a perception that the level of responsiveness is better if there is less energetic playing.
I must admit for me the diversion to that pushing and pulling takes my attention away from playing notes on the guitar, and one of the things that appeals to me a lot about DADGAD is the sound of those open strings in their natural state combining with fretted notes. I did give it a half hearted go and I would agree that uncomfortable and inhibiting are appropriate descriptions. But then PB has more than enough skill to do the two things at once and still be musical. A law unto himself as you say but I guess that's part of what builds up to make him a unique performer.
I had a look at the Lawrence Uber method - I can see what he's meaning, and why it might be better, though I just found that technique tends to dampen the sound of the guitar too much for me - at least it does at my skill level and on the quality level of guitars that I play! So I think I'll be steering clear of both methods just now.
I also bought this course a while back when it was on special offer, although I haven't looked at it yet as am imagining it's way beyond my current level. I also bought the Tony Macmanus 'The Celtic Journeyman' course. I want to finish the Justin Folk Fingerstyle course and the Art of Contemporary Travis Picking book (I reckon another year) and then will tackle them! Pierre is amazing, has played a lot with Didier Malherbe from Gong etc. There are some good basic lessons within the Pierre Bensusan course, so hopefully you'll find benefits when you get to it after those others. Like the overview of right and left hand techniques for example.
If you can manage to crack Travis picking you have my admiration. Way beyond me, mainly due to the strict control and discipline required to play that style correctly.
I must check out the Bensusan / Malherbe combo. I admired Didier Malherbe's work with Gong.
Mark
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Post by Deleted on Aug 4, 2018 18:44:50 GMT
Thanks Mark. The Art of Contemporary Travis Picking supposedly takes you from no picking (as long as you know and can change smoothly between the open chord shapes), through four basic patterns and many songs, a little bit of added filigree, and introduces solo style playing. It;s main focus is getting beginners up and running with the basics I think. The next book, (The Art Of Solo Fingerpicking) supposedly takes you way beyond backing a song into solo styles, and looks far more advanced! I am about a quarter of the way through the first book, just taking the exercises very slowly and not moving on until I can do them a bit faster. Am loving it so far.
Definitely looking forward to checking out the PB and Macmanus courses in a year or so though.
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Post by vikingblues on Aug 4, 2018 19:08:05 GMT
There is some good instruction in this course regarding more basic skills. It's far from a "play like Pierre Bensusan" course. Thankfully - 'cos I couldn't. There's a helpful section on right and left hand techniques, including finger independence, adding accents, bass notes on and off the beats, etc. The section on bass notes and their placement was very interesting, and made me aware how I nearly always make these on either beat 1 or 3 of a 4 beats to the bar tune. Playing the bass note on the second beat seems to be the most tricky and playing the bass notes between beats needs extra concentration and slow playing just now. What was particularly tricky to begin with was playing an arpeggio of 4 notes from the 1st down to the 4th string (ring, middle, index, middle fingers) while at the same time playing 8 bass notes one on and one off each of the 4 beats. I've noticed watching Pierre Bensusan on video that he's much more often looking at the right hand rather than the left. I know where I'd end up doing that! Mark
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Post by vikingblues on Aug 13, 2018 19:23:04 GMT
I've had this course for 3 weeks now and it still continues to hold my attention. I thought I should say a few things about it in general. With nearly 4 hours worth of video material it doesn't skimp on quantity. The teaching is clear. There is a good backup by way of tabs and notation, on screen or PDF. The course material can be downloaded onto your PC so you don;t have to use the truefire app / link - useful if they go out of business. Finding where the files were downloaded to on the PC took a bit of effort! While some of the things I have seen are impossible for me and always will be (I've mentioned ridiculous finger stretching earlier in the thread), and while some lessons are rather tricky, there is a lot of useful advice and instruction even for someone at my level. I did rather fear when I got the course that it would be way too difficult as PB is such a hugely skilled player who often plays what seem to be very complex pieces. There are six performance pieces, 5 with Tabs - my impression is that they are simplified versions of the way they are normally played and they are short pieces. But the pieces chosen and the style and the difficulty level are geared towards showing how some of the teaching material works in a proper tune. The pieces are - (1) Le Voyage Pour L'Ireland, (2) Hekimoglu, (3) The Day After the Feast, (4) Wu Wei, (5) L'Alchimiste, (6) Intuite (no Tabs). The performance of Intuite is far more complex and demanding than the others and serves as a reminder to just how simplified (but still tricky) the course pieces are. There is, when using the truefire app, a decent facility for slowing down the music. Pretty well essential for me if I want to try and play along with all the notes that PB plays. There are also some very nice aural experiences in the listening, even with some of the studies / lessons. There's a lesson on rhythmic independence for example where there is a high to low arpeggio with the ring finger playing the 1st beat, and then there is a bass line that impacts on the 4th and the 3rd beats. The bass alternates between these each bar, and also moves around the various scale notes and the effect is musically very satisfying and hypnotic. I have the impression this material could be a long lasting reference. I also find that Pierre Bensusan has that ability of getting across an enthusiasm and musicality across to me as the pupil which makes me want to play and seems to boost my playing after a lesson even if I'm playing something totally different. So - highly recommended. By the way, I've taken a reverse leaf out of Greggs book and have bought and downloaded the Tony McManus course for later investigation. It is on special offer and around £16 at the current exchange rate. I look forward to that, even if it means having to get my head around Dropped D tuning, which I've hardly ever used. Mark
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Post by dangad on Sept 25, 2018 14:08:48 GMT
I've worked through this course and there's certainly some acrobatic finger work going on that proves the man is simply not human - although I saw him play and meet him in London a month or so ago and he definitely passes himself of as a really nice human!!
Agree that some of the versions on this course don't quite match up with his recordings. I learnt the "Voyage For Ireland" from his Guitar book and it's quite different to the Truefire course... However when I saw him he started off with what appeared to be the "Truefire" version before going into the "proper" version. I guess guy is so good he's just riffing off his own tunes.
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Post by creamburmese on Sept 25, 2018 18:33:10 GMT
You guys have the advantage of being even able to contemplate those stretches! I would have to totally fudge it! For instance in the "harp effect: which is apparently BEFGAD (all the notes of the scale except C?) I'd just miss out the bass string, leaving - er - all the notes of the scale except B and C - lol! Or do what classical players have been seen to do - ie use their thumb ON TOP of the fingerboard to reach - though you'll not see me doing that either. Pierre is definitely unique and has skills I can only dream about. Anyone notice he changed his guitar position so it now seems to be a hybrid between regular and classical position? Evidently he was having so much back pain from hunching over the guitar he switched... though to be honest he's still hunching over the guitar...
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Post by andyhowell on Sept 26, 2018 15:21:49 GMT
You guys have the advantage of being even able to contemplate those stretches! I would have to totally fudge it! For instance in the "harp effect: which is apparently BEFGAD (all the notes of the scale except C?) I'd just miss out the bass string, leaving - er - all the notes of the scale except B and C - lol! Or do what classical players have been seen to do - ie use their thumb ON TOP of the fingerboard to reach - though you'll not see me doing that either. Pierre is definitely unique and has skills I can only dream about. Anyone notice he changed his guitar position so it now seems to be a hybrid between regular and classical position? Evidently he was having so much back pain from hunching over the guitar he switched... though to be honest he's still hunching over the guitar... I think fudging with this stuff is not only acceptable but pretty much invaluable! I always thought his playing position looked painful!
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Post by vikingblues on Sept 30, 2018 9:48:29 GMT
I've worked through this course and there's certainly some acrobatic finger work going on that proves the man is simply not human - although I saw him play and meet him in London a month or so ago and he definitely passes himself of as a really nice human!! Agree that some of the versions on this course don't quite match up with his recordings. I learnt the "Voyage For Ireland" from his Guitar book and it's quite different to the Truefire course... However when I saw him he started off with what appeared to be the "Truefire" version before going into the "proper" version. I guess guy is so good he's just riffing off his own tunes. That humanity comes across well in the lessons - it passes across an enthusiasm and a love of music that helps offset some of the impossible to achieve lessons.
Probably just as well that the course material is simplified versions of his "proper" versions. Certainly just as well for someone of my ability level!
You guys have the advantage of being even able to contemplate those stretches! I would have to totally fudge it! For instance in the "harp effect: which is apparently BEFGAD (all the notes of the scale except C?) I'd just miss out the bass string, leaving - er - all the notes of the scale except B and C - lol! Or do what classical players have been seen to do - ie use their thumb ON TOP of the fingerboard to reach - though you'll not see me doing that either. Pierre is definitely unique and has skills I can only dream about. Anyone notice he changed his guitar position so it now seems to be a hybrid between regular and classical position? Evidently he was having so much back pain from hunching over the guitar he switched... though to be honest he's still hunching over the guitar... I think fudging with this stuff is not only acceptable but pretty much invaluable! I always thought his playing position looked painful! Fudging = "ESSENTIAL"!!!
You're right about the guitar position Julie. I've seen him with his right shoulder resting on top of the guitar and his right cheek resting on the side of the upper bout.
The trickier the piece gets the more the hunch. Looks like a great way to achieve the need for physiotherapy.
Link that with the painful stretches. Not to be slavishly copied if you value your long term muscle health.
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I seem to have come to a grinding halt on this now, but I have enjoyed getting what I have done from the course. There's a lot in the lessons in the way of how to approach note choice and sound rather than instruction of specific notes and tunes to play.
It may be that I'll get back to it in the future. I've been playing more guitar recently but can't get inspired and creativity seems at a low ebb. There's been nothing worth recording since "The Life Timer Emptied" over 3 weeks ago.
Possibly due to the distraction of house move shenanigans, possibly the loss of our dog, possibly the lurch back to reality after my time with Dave White's Anthea. Or all three.
But quite possibly just one of those troughs that come around every so often.
Mark
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Post by andyhowell on Oct 1, 2018 6:31:38 GMT
With his traditional playing position — I've often thought he should invest in a sound hole in the upper sides!
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Post by dangad on Oct 1, 2018 12:35:35 GMT
Fudging = "ESSENTIAL"!!!
I would say it's more about creating your own interpretation of any piece of music
I remember learning one of his pieces and it had a five fret pinky stretch to the 7th fret. I realised that in DADGAD the 7th fret 'A' was also the 2nd string open so voila!! There's a reason why Bensusan plays it at the 7th fret... and there's a reason why I play it open
There's a Tony McManus lesson where he's talking about the history of some tune and how it has been passed down generation to generation and often there's a mistake learnt and incorporated and then that gets passed on and these all become part of the tune, part of the tradition.... Now that's a tradition I can get on board with.
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