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Post by sweyne1 on Nov 16, 2013 9:53:37 GMT
Many people have said, if you try a guitar in a shop and like it buy that one, don't order a similar one because it will almost certainly sound different from the one you tried. This applies to factory produced guitars. My question is about handbuilt guitars. Many of you have visited, say Brook for example, tried a Tamar and ordered one to be built for you. It's the same situation. You only get to try your guitar when you receive it months later. How are you sure it will sound the same ? Now i'll try to answer my own question. Andy and Simon at Brook know exactly how a Tamar should look, sound and feel. They'll tap tune the top, shave it a bit, tap, shave, tap, shave and so on till it's right and then use it for the guitar. And you end up with a Tamar which is a virtual clone of the original. Which is what you want.
Is it as simple as that ? It must be, I suppose, because how else would you be sure of getting the guitar you want.
And another question, if I may, about Hobgoblin in Bristol. I'm calling over to see Jonny Kinkead soon and was planning on visiting Hobgoblin. I checked the site and there are, apparently, 3 Moons and 3 Fylde guitars for sale. Then I checked the other stores and the same guitars are advertised in them all. So maybe none of then are actually in Bristol (i'll be ringing them after 10 when they're open to find out). What's the point of that ?
John
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Post by ocarolan on Nov 16, 2013 10:10:39 GMT
Hi John - you'll enjoy your trip to Jonny's - he's a lovely man. Tiny and seemingly chaotic workshop - great guitars - impeccable workmanship, but he may only have a couple available to play though. In fairness to Hobgoblin, I'm pretty sure they do say always to telephone re availability in specific branches if making a special trip. Maybe if you ask them nicely they might get at least a couple of the guitars you want to see along to the Bristol branch specially for you....? Their used listings are much more helpful, as these are specific to particular shops, and even the complete used listing indicates where the things are. Earlier this year Bristol had a used Oberon and a used Olivia that I wanted to see, but unsurprisingly they sold too quickly for me to get there. Hope you have a great day! keith
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Post by davewhite on Nov 16, 2013 10:22:12 GMT
John,
With a hand made instrument in part it's an act of faith both ways between maker and buyer. I'm confident that I can produce my sound on each instrument that I make and I will rarely make an instrument for any one unless they come and play the instruments I have here so that they can be sure that my sound is what they are after and see that it's in all of my instruments and I can be sure that my instruments are a good fit for them. There's a quote that I think came from John Gruhn talking to Canadian maker Michael Greenfield that goes along the lines of "The difference between your guitars and factory made ones is that your next guitar is your best." So the advice is to play as many instruments as you can of the maker you are considering. After that you have the confidence of the outcome and the guitar has the magic of being yours and built just for you.
If you don't have that confidence then buy a ready made guitar that speaks to you.
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Post by stringdriventhing on Nov 16, 2013 11:18:26 GMT
I don't think any two solid wood acoustic guitars of the same model, even hand-built ones, can ever sound exactly the same. However, I'd imagine that there's a lot less variation with hand built guitars from the big makers, for the reasons you mention. Happy shopping :-)
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Post by earwighoney on Nov 16, 2013 11:48:37 GMT
Many people have said, if you try a guitar in a shop and like it buy that one, don't order a similar one because it will almost certainly sound different from the one you tried. This applies to factory produced guitars. My question is about handbuilt guitars. Many of you have visited, say Brook for example, tried a Tamar and ordered one to be built for you. It's the same situation. You only get to try your guitar when you receive it months later. How are you sure it will sound the same ? Now i'll try to answer my own question. Andy and Simon at Brook know exactly how a Tamar should look, sound and feel. They'll tap tune the top, shave it a bit, tap, shave, tap, shave and so on till it's right and then use it for the guitar. And you end up with a Tamar which is a virtual clone of the original. Which is what you want.
Is it as simple as that ? It must be, I suppose, because how else would you be sure of getting the guitar you want. When it comes to Brook's, I'd say they are very safe when it comes to consistency. Of all the 20 odd or more Brooks I've tried over the years they have all shared a commonality in sound irrespective of body size or tonewood. My belief is generally, the more revered a guitar maker is the more consistent they are. Some particular builders in the USA eg Collings, they pride themselves in being as consistent as possible. In a commission the builders pride themselves on providing the specifications and sound which you are looking for, as even though it would require trust on your behalf to pay the deposit, the builder(s) themselves will pride their work to deliver your requirements as after all it's their livelihood and their reputation would be on the line if they built an instrument which didn't meet your or their standards.
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Post by sigmadel on Nov 16, 2013 13:26:38 GMT
...................... And another question, if I may, about Hobgoblin in Bristol. I'm calling over to see Jonny Kinkead soon and was planning on visiting Hobgoblin. I checked the site and there are, apparently, 3 Moons and 3 Fylde guitars for sale. Then I checked the other stores and the same guitars are advertised in them all. So maybe none of then are actually in Bristol (i'll be ringing them after 10 when they're open to find out). What's the point of that ? John Guitar guitar do that too John the have a few stores and sometimes, say on the Edinburgh store it shows a particular guitar in stock it could actually be in stock in Newcastle . Rather annoying but its always worth a call first to check . In answer to your first question then yes for the factory built I can't comment on handmade because I've not played enough to see if there are subtle differences . My Sigma in a mag review although good said that the back and sides were slightly different in colour , well not on mine . It also said that there was a slight choke off above the 12 the fret , again mine doesn't have these issues . My 12 string a review said some sharp fret ends and again no not the one I bought I probably wouldn't have bought it otherwise as I'd already turned away a Simon and Patrick because of this . I would have thought that there might be subtle differences in hand built guitars although the quality control would be much higher so differences in playability and build quality would be very similar .
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Post by sweyne1 on Nov 16, 2013 16:42:53 GMT
Many thanks for the responses all. Regarding Jonny Kinkead Keith, he said he's got several demo guitars to try including two Kingsdowns (one RW, one MH) which is the size of guitar i'm probably going to end up with (you never know until you try them though, yes ?). I did ring Hobgoblin in Bristol as I said. They have one Moon in the shop (a 0001) but none of the Fyldes. EWH - I'm planning to visit Brook week after next. Everything i've read and seen via Youtube is good. I would like to visit lots of shops and try lots of guitars Dave but, in the process half my fund would disappear ( ). And my fund, even before that, wouldn't stretch to one of your guitars i'm afraid. Maybe next time. Just keep strumming. John
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Post by ocarolan on Nov 16, 2013 17:29:59 GMT
Good! I played his Kingsdowns and liked them a lot - I'm guessing they'll be the same ones as I tried. I also tried a funny shaped one (model P or something) which I liked ths ound of. Also liked the shape apart from the cutaway. You might also find a few Brooks in Intersound Dursley, just a little up the M5 from Bristol - they had half a dozen in last time I was there, as well as a Dave King and several Atkins. I really like a cedar/maple brook Lyn they had in. Might be worth giving them a ring if you're doing a grand tour. And, if you're going from Bristol to Brook, you'll be passing within 10 miles of where I am - if times were convenient you'd be welcome to drop by and have a go on my Fyldes, Lowdens and a DeFaoite. No pressure, but PM me when you know what your arrangements might be. Keith
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Post by sweyne1 on Nov 16, 2013 18:24:18 GMT
Just checked the Intersound site and there's a good selection which I will try, albeit no Fylde's so your offer of trying yours is so kind. I so very much appreciate the offer. I will certainly pm you. John
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Post by earwighoney on Nov 16, 2013 19:25:16 GMT
EWH - I'm planning to visit Brook week after next. Everything i've read and seen via Youtube is good. I love Brook guitars, they build wonderful guitars that are really light and responsive. Ivor Mairant's in London have a few of their guitars at all (amongst many others), and there are many other guitars in their which are a lot more expensive but I believe the Brooks are equal if not better to the ones in their. If you are to commission a Brook, I would recommend Walnut or Yew (just my personal choices, I'm sure others with have their favourites). Walnut in particular, every Brook with Walnut back and sides has been superb.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 16, 2013 19:47:06 GMT
I would echo everything EWH has said- I love Brook simply because I am confident that they can deliver exactly the sound I am after. My two Brooks have both been custom instruments, and both quite quirky in their ways- one an all temperate woods affair, the latest a long scale 12 fret jumbo. But both have given me sounds beyond my expectations. That wonderful looking sunburst in Intersound is a lovely guitar in the flesh- I spent a very happy hour down at the workshop watching them make the bridge and glue it to the top. And just to add, Clive Carroll can be added to the list of Brook players, even if only for one gig! Last weekend, when his Bown had been smashed at Stanstead airport he was desperate for a guitar to play for a gig in Cornwall that evening. He ended up borrowing Simon's own personal Taw, which Clive described as a wonderful instrument To answer your original question though, commissioning a new instrument is always a leap of faith, but I like it because I can chose every aspect of its construction, and I have found a maker that I can trust in 100% to deliver. Robbie
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Post by sweyne1 on Nov 17, 2013 9:39:44 GMT
Thanks Robbie and EWH. Personal recommendations are always best whatever you buy.
John
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Post by sweyne1 on Nov 29, 2013 18:01:39 GMT
An update. I visited Jonny Kinkead as planned. I tried three guitars, the two Kingsdowns I mentioned (RW and MH) plus a Westbury (the model reviewed in Acoustic which had great reviews). The Westbury was easily my favourite. I then tried the Moon 0001 in Hobgoblin. I knew it was a non starter even before I tried it (size, wood etc) but decided i'd go there as it's only around the corner from Jonny. Then I visited Keith and Viv. After a lovely welcome, including a cup of tea, Keith took me into the next room where he'd displayed all his guitars. How nice is that. Six in total from memory. The Fylde Alexander was the specific guitar I wanted to try and I wasn't disappointed. It was lovely. And some of Keith's criteria for the guitar build were what i'd already just about decided I wanted. RW back and sides, no dot inlays on the fingerboard (Keith has a Celtic knot at the 12th fret) and a wider nut (Keith's is 45 mm which felt really nice). And one or two of Keith's other ideas also struck a chord ( ). The marquetry and purfling lines (to delineate between the RW biding and the RW back and sides - correct me if my memory gets it wrong Keith). Also the RW headstock veneer in place of black. It's all shown in Keith's pictures in the Reviews section. Then yesterday I visited Intersound and met Steve. What a really good bloke. Happy to chat probably all day if some dreaded customers hadn't come in. In all I tried the Brook Taw, the Tamar, Atkin 00 and the Toon Lansdown. I tried the Atkin simply because it was there. It was a 12 fretter so I knew I wouldn't want it but thought it would give me a flavour of his guitars. The Toon also. It was an 00 and smaller than I wanted but well worth trying because it was there. They didn't compare with the Brooks for what I was looking for. Also, even though I imagined I would like the Taw the most I really preferred the Tamar. With the Taw I found my arm slipping over the lower bout whereas the larger lower bout of the Tamar gave my arm more solid support. And the back and sides were American Red Gum (I have got that right haven't I ?). It was gorgeous. I can't say that I understand what difference it makes to the sound but it looked fantastic. One thing i'll say to echo what others have said is that the standard of build was brilliant with both guitars. And as far as I can tell with my untrained eye, consistent. Just two guitars I know but still. As i'm looking for an all rounder the end result of all that is that there were three guitars that stood out for me. Jonny Kinkead's Westbury, Keith's Alexander and the Brook Tamar. And the one that I enjoyed playing and listening to (not to mention looking at) the most is the Alexander. So, my thinking cap is currently on and i'll come back with more news as and when. John
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Post by alig on Nov 29, 2013 18:14:27 GMT
An update. I visited Jonny Kinkead as planned. I tried three guitars, the two Kingsdowns I mentioned (RW and MH) plus a Westbury (the model reviewed in Acoustic which had great reviews). The Westbury was easily my favourite. I then tried the Moon 0001 in Hobgoblin. I knew it was a non starter even before I tried it (size, wood etc) but decided i'd go there as it's only around the corner from Jonny. Then I visited Keith and Viv. After a lovely welcome, including a cup of tea, Keith took me into the next room where he'd displayed all his guitars. How nice is that. Six in total from memory. The Fylde Alexander was the specific guitar I wanted to try and I wasn't disappointed. It was lovely. And some of Keith's criteria for the guitar build were what i'd already just about decided I wanted. RW back and sides, no dot inlays on the fingerboard (Keith has a Celtic knot at the 12th fret) and a wider nut (Keith's is 45 mm which felt really nice). And one or two of Keith's other ideas also struck a chord ( ). The marquetry and purfling lines (to delineate between the RW biding and the RW back and sides - correct me if my memory gets it wrong Keith). Also the RW headstock veneer in place of black. It's all shown in Keith's pictures in the Reviews section. Then yesterday I visited Intersound and met Steve. What a really good bloke. Happy to chat probably all day if some dreaded customers hadn't come in. In all I tried the Brook Taw, the Tamar, Atkin 00 and the Toon Lansdown. I tried the Atkin simply because it was there. It was a 12 fretter so I knew I wouldn't want it but thought it would give me a flavour of his guitars. The Toon also. It was an 00 and smaller than I wanted but well worth trying because it was there. They didn't compare with the Brooks for what I was looking for. Also, even though I imagined I would like the Taw the most I really preferred the Tamar. With the Taw I found my arm slipping over the lower bout whereas the larger lower bout of the Tamar gave my arm more solid support. And the back and sides were American Red Gum (I have got that right haven't I ?). It was gorgeous. I can't say that I understand what difference it makes to the sound but it looked fantastic. One thing i'll say to echo what others have said is that the standard of build was brilliant with both guitars. And as far as I can tell with my untrained eye, consistent. Just two guitars I know but still. As i'm looking for an all rounder the end result of all that is that there were three guitars that stood out for me. Jonny Kinkead's Westbury, Keith's Alexander and the Brook Tamar. And the one that I enjoyed playing and listening to (not to mention looking at) the most is the Alexander. So, my thinking cap is currently on and i'll come back with more news as and when. John Ah, the agony of choice. Good luck with your pleasant problem.
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Post by ocarolan on Nov 29, 2013 19:58:55 GMT
Good to read about your other trips John - a great time all round eh?! But don't forget to take a trip to see Richard Meyrick too - your neck of the woods as you know. Keith
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