Andy P
C.O.G.
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My main instrument is: Taylor 312ce, Guild D25, Deering 5 string banjo
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Post by Andy P on Sept 28, 2016 21:33:25 GMT
I've decided that this is the system I want for my Lowden G9. Can anyone answer a quick question though: is it easily removable for acoustic playing (and, it follows, easily reinstallable)? I'm not sure I can live with a soundhole pickup for the 99% of the time I'll be unplugged.
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Riverman
Artist / Performer
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Post by Riverman on Sept 28, 2016 22:36:32 GMT
Andy, first you need to check the size of the soundhole. Fishman say the RE will fit sound holes as small as 92mm. Ease of fitting and removal is really dependent, in my experience, on the soundhole not being at the smallest end of the suitable size range.
Assuming it fits ok, if you don't mind having the cable trailing out of the soundhole (like John Renbourn) it's a two minute job. If you want to use a jack at the endpin then it's a semi permanent fitting.
On their M1/M80 soundhole pickups, LR Baggs use a mini jack from the endpin cable to the pickup, so those are easy to unplug and remove when not needed - the cable just stays in the guitar. It's a much better system in my view, but not one Fishman have adopted. Someone once told me that it would be possible to adapt the Fishman by cutting the cable inside the guitar and fitting a mini jack to reconnect it, but I'm not enough of a techie to know if that would work or not.
I've gone for the semi permanent installation myself. You get used to it being there after a while - as has been discussed many times, all systems have compromises of some kind, and for me it's worth it.
Hope that helps.
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Post by andyhowell on Sept 29, 2016 8:00:12 GMT
I think the Rare Earth Blend is a better pickup than the Baggs.
These are not cheap pickups but on the basis of in for a penny and all that, check out the Vandem Memesis Kudos - with built in mic. These sound superb.
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Post by scorpiodog on Sept 29, 2016 8:02:39 GMT
I have an older one and find it quite good but very prone to feedback when anything more than a touch of microphone is dialled in. Consequently it has been in my spares box for some time. Installation is easy though if, as Riverman says, you leave the lead hanging from the sound hole. I've never marked a top using it. Seems pretty safe from that point of view.
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Post by scorpiodog on Sept 29, 2016 8:04:47 GMT
You can borrow mine if you want to try it out. Pm me your address and I'll pop it in the post.
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Riverman
Artist / Performer
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Post by Riverman on Sept 29, 2016 8:10:06 GMT
I've not had a problem with feedback, but then I've found that I haven't had to blend in much microphone to add a bit of air to the basic pickup sound. Of course all guitars, sound systems and rooms are different. And whether that improvement in the sound is worth the extra cost is a matter of taste, and budget.
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Andy P
C.O.G.
Posts: 4,982
My main instrument is: Taylor 312ce, Guild D25, Deering 5 string banjo
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Post by Andy P on Sept 29, 2016 10:34:29 GMT
Thanks to you all for your comments and for the loan offer Scorpiodog! The luxury of choice is a bugger sometimes, don't you think?
I think the Fishman seems to score higher than the Baggs and the Vanden Mimesis is over my budget. I'm now considering the Fishman Ellipse Matrix undersaddle plus mic but then again I may decide I can live with the soundhole pickup of the Rare Earth.
Jury still deliberating and unlikely to come in with a unanimous verdict...
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Andy P
C.O.G.
Posts: 4,982
My main instrument is: Taylor 312ce, Guild D25, Deering 5 string banjo
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Post by Andy P on Sept 30, 2016 10:55:06 GMT
The Ellipse Matrix Blend does get very good reviews but I can't find a dealer who stocks it in the split saddle format.
Do you know what? I might just get a good old - invisible - K&K and save money.
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Post by scorpiodog on Sept 30, 2016 11:32:42 GMT
I'm very happy with my K&K's. I think that's a sensible decision.
It may seem like heresy, but once I get to a certain level of quality in pickups, I stop hearing the differences. I guess I just don't have the auditory equipment.
You are still very welcome to try my Fishman Blend if you'd like.
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Riverman
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Post by Riverman on Sept 30, 2016 11:49:38 GMT
Do you know what? I might just get a good old - invisible - K&K and save money. That's undoubtedly the best course of action, if you like the sound of the K&K for your guitar(s) and playing style. Unfortunately I don't!
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Post by andyhowell on Sept 30, 2016 12:40:00 GMT
Thanks to you all for your comments and for the loan offer Scorpiodog! The luxury of choice is a bugger sometimes, don't you think? I think the Fishman seems to score higher than the Baggs and the Vanden Mimesis is over my budget. I'm now considering the Fishman Ellipse Matrix undersaddle plus mic but then again I may decide I can live with the soundhole pickup of the Rare Earth. Jury still deliberating and unlikely to come in with a unanimous verdict... Personally, I would go for the Rare Earth Blend over the Ellipse Matrix. I've never heard a Rare Earth Blend sound bad !!! Pickups are funny things and — as we've said many times before — very personal. Here's a story. My Santa Cruz OM has a Fishman Under Saddle pickup installed in it. This sounds OK though I suspect it was;t very carefully installed. When playing solo I often used to blend in am external mic if I could get away with it. Playing with floor monitors in a pub room I could often get a 75/25 blend mic to pickup. My AJ Lucas has a Headway USP in it which to my ears is the best USP that I have heard. The Headway system (pickups and external preamps) seem to add a lot of space to the sound, so much so that I'm most of the time not bothering to mix with a mic. I'm often using an Orchid preamp now which is a little simpler than the Headway which I used to blend signals. In my view, you will always get a better sound from an external mic blended with a pickup than with an internal mic. However, there are problems and challenges here — no least that you have to be able to set up. Richard is spot on about mic blending. You often don't need much of the mic in the blend to really fill out the sound. Just a little can really make the guitar sound more real. The problem with the Memesis (apart from price) is that it needs properly setting up in a stereo preamp or mixing desk. Those who make on board blended systems often have the mic and the pickup addressing different frequencies which seems to be sensible — the Rare Earth seems to get this absolutely spot on. I was at a local festival recently and saw three young singer songwriters — all serious musicians — playing together. Each of them was using a Rare Earth Blend and there sound was big, fat and lovely. Back to my story though. A few months ago my Lucas went back for a little maintenance. I had a few gigs and so dug out my old Martin J40 as the OM pickup is humming. This J40 pickup is an old Fishman which was installed almost 30 years ago. Back in the day it was the bees knees but I've always supposed it would sound a bit crap today. I got to one gig to find the guy with the PA had left a load of cables at home. I only had one and so couldn't use my preamp. I felt very nervous and simply plugged into the mixer. But this guy knew his equipment and the sound of that pickup was astonishingly good! It all goes to show this is art and not applied science! SaveSave
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Andy P
C.O.G.
Posts: 4,982
My main instrument is: Taylor 312ce, Guild D25, Deering 5 string banjo
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Post by Andy P on Sept 30, 2016 13:07:52 GMT
Just now I was about to click the "Order now" button for a K&K but thought I'd just check back here for any updates. For me it's a trade-off between what's going to sound good and what I find aesthetically pleasing. I just don't want a permanent pickup stuck in the soundhole. If only Fishman did the LR Baggs mini-jack on the wiring thing that Riverman refers to! Another thing to throw into the mix, as it were, is that I believe the Lowdens have a unique sound that may not be compatible with a system which may work fine with other guitars. The obvious step might be to use what they recommend: the LR Baggs Lyric acoustic microphone, the Highlander IP1 (which is apparently favoured by Pierre Bensusan) or the LR Baggs Anthem. The latter is more than I want to spend - after all I do very few gigs these days. It's only a hobby (that reminds me of a joke about bees....) I'll carry on going round these houses (yet) again for a while yet but in the meanwhile many thanks to you all.
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Riverman
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Post by Riverman on Sept 30, 2016 13:34:31 GMT
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ocarolan
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Post by ocarolan on Sept 30, 2016 13:38:09 GMT
..... If only Fishman did the LR Baggs mini-jack on the wiring thing that Riverman refers to! ................ It should be relatively simple wiring job to arrange - I'm sure your handy local Guitar Doctor could sort that fairly cheaply for you. Keith
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Post by andyhowell on Sept 30, 2016 13:52:33 GMT
Just now I was about to click the "Order now" button for a K&K but thought I'd just check back here for any updates. For me it's a trade-off between what's going to sound good and what I find aesthetically pleasing. I just don't want a permanent pickup stuck in the soundhole. If only Fishman did the LR Baggs mini-jack on the wiring thing that Riverman refers to! Another thing to throw into the mix, as it were, is that I believe the Lowdens have a unique sound that may not be compatible with a system which may work fine with other guitars. The obvious step might be to use what they recommend: the LR Baggs Lyric acoustic microphone, the Highlander IP1 (which is apparently favoured by Pierre Bensusan) or the LR Baggs Anthem. The latter is more than I want to spend - after all I do very few gigs these days. It's only a hobby (that reminds me of a joke about bees....) I'll carry on going round these houses (yet) again for a while yet but in the meanwhile many thanks to you all. I suspect Keith is right. I'm pretty my local sound guy would do this. The Highlander is a superb system but installation is a bit tricky — it needs a special tool. It has a big, fat tone which I think really works when people have a real deep attack (I don't really). I'm not really a fan of the Lyric or the Anthem for that matter but it is personal. The K&K has a special sound of its own and, of course, many devotees around here. I think it benefits massively from a really good English preamp — Headway or Orchid. Pickups have a fundamental sound of their own and so you can make a judgement by hearing them on different guitars.I doubt that the Lowden sound is any more difficult to use a pickup with then anything else. USPs will pickup some of the tonal range and the reverberation but won't be massively accurate. With a pickup system you are always looking for something that sounds good to your ears, not something that sounds like your guitar. Doug Young's pickup comparison recordings are always worth a listen SaveSave
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