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Post by Cams on Jan 26, 2018 9:51:55 GMT
I just listened to episode 10 of the Taylor Guitars podcast, Taylor Guitars: From the Factory, where Andy Powers talks about V-Bracing. It's fascinating. He talks about the traditional compromise between flexibility and rigidity to give volume and sustain and how he came up with this new bracing pattern idea by watching waves in the Pacific. I'm going to go through the back catalogue of these episodes before there are too many to catch up on. Episode 10 is the latest one. www.taylorguitars.com/from-the-factory-podcast
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Phil Taylor
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Post by Phil Taylor on Jan 26, 2018 10:56:34 GMT
I've watched a few videos about this and whilst I can't hear anything special with the sound over the internet I did find it interesting. Having said that I do find that I am less impressed with the type of romantic notions such as 'bracing pattern idea from watching waves in the Pacific' that are becoming common place with a few guitar builders. Perhaps it's my age Phil
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Post by andyc on Jan 26, 2018 11:57:27 GMT
I've watched a few videos about this and whilst I can't hear anything special with the sound over the internet I did find it interesting. Having said that I do find that I am less impressed with the type of romantic notions such as 'bracing pattern idea from watching waves in the Pacific' that are becoming common place with a few guitar builders. Perhaps it's my age Phil Completely agree - just yesterday I read all that bo**ocks about George Lowden heading off on a "retreat" to design an electric guitar. I suppose some people are gullible enough to buy into all this nonsense.
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Post by andyhowell on Jan 27, 2018 17:41:31 GMT
I've watched a few videos about this and whilst I can't hear anything special with the sound over the internet I did find it interesting. Having said that I do find that I am less impressed with the type of romantic notions such as 'bracing pattern idea from watching waves in the Pacific' that are becoming common place with a few guitar builders. Perhaps it's my age Phil I guess it gets harder to differentiate. Folks love tech stuff like this, New and improved for 2018 ;-)
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ocarolan
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Post by ocarolan on Jan 27, 2018 23:41:08 GMT
If there's an annual show, the marketing depts. have to come up with something to make their stuff seem different/better/cleverer/more innovative/more exclusive/more desirable etc.
Doesn't just happen with guitars.
Keith
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Post by jubbo on Jan 28, 2018 22:44:21 GMT
I have found this whole v-class launch to be curious. I spend my day job as a product manager and Taylor seem to be breaking all the rules with this one. The interviews really seem to throw all other guitars (including Taylor's) under the bus. I would have applauded the move had they introduced the technology to all (or a large proportion) of their range. However, by just launching with 3 high end models and no promise of standardising it seems a bit damaging to the brand. If there's an annual show, the marketing depts. have to come up with something to make their stuff seem different/better/cleverer/more innovative/more exclusive/more desirable etc. Doesn't just happen with guitars. Keith
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Post by dreadnought28 on Jan 28, 2018 23:26:10 GMT
I've watched a few videos about this and whilst I can't hear anything special with the sound over the internet I did find it interesting. Having said that I do find that I am less impressed with the type of romantic notions such as 'bracing pattern idea from watching waves in the Pacific' that are becoming common place with a few guitar builders. Perhaps it's my age Phil Completely agree - just yesterday I read all that bo**ocks about George Lowden heading off on a "retreat" to design an electric guitar. I suppose some people are gullible enough to buy into all this nonsense. Yes I can imagine my friend Mr Bown rolling his eyes!
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Post by andyhowell on Jan 29, 2018 8:01:04 GMT
This is all like New Improved Daz. Most people ask what was wrong with the Old Daz? Have you been selling me short for years?
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Post by Riverman on Jan 29, 2018 10:42:34 GMT
This is all like New Improved Daz. Most people ask what was wrong with the Old Daz? Have you been selling me short for years? I think that’s the secret of Taylor’s very successful marketing strategy. Make people feel that there’s something wrong with their guitar because it doesn’t have the latest bells and whistles, so they upgrade. That said, if as a maker you’re into innovation, and genuinely believe that you’ve taken a step forward - and I’d give Andy Powers the benefit of the doubt on this - what else are you going to do?
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Post by andyhowell on Jan 29, 2018 11:02:22 GMT
Riverman I see Martin are up to similar things at the NAMM show. Taylor deserve a lot of credit for creating a genuine alternative to Martin. In many ways I prefer their sound though not always their playability. I remember a 81 as being one of the best guitars I have ever played. Powers is a very interesting guy and Taylor's experiments with Maple is a case in point. It is all a bit crowded now in that area. Taylor and Larrivee are now joined by a resurgent Guild. At the top end Santa Cruz, Bourgeois and Collins would be my first port of call. It looks at me as if the lower end of their market is becoming more and more important and I'm not surprise dot see this technical hype. But remember we are weird people. We prefer guitars made be people who work in their attics or garden sheds ;-)
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Post by dobro on Jan 30, 2018 2:22:40 GMT
Taylor's "new" bracing has created quite the buzz on the American forums, especially on the Acoustic guitar forum. Dozens of LONG threads. These things seem to have had quite the impact on the acoustic lot. Very emotional. Personally I find it interesting and a bit amusing. To quote the builder Howard Klepper:"Nothing new under the sun".
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Post by Deleted on Jan 30, 2018 6:42:25 GMT
When these V braced guitars collapse in on themselves in a few years time we will know what a futile experiment this is. I had a friend who had a extremely expensive hand made guitar built for him a couple of years ago, by a well known luthier who shall remain anonymous. Lots of ‘innovations’ on it but at the end of the day the top sunk after just a year. The builder now builds them differently. Sometimes people seem hell bent of coming up with solutions to ‘problems that don’t exist.
Robbie
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davewhite
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Post by davewhite on Jan 30, 2018 12:00:45 GMT
Looking forward to the "Churchillian" variant inspired by the waves crashing on the Normandy beaches Nothing wrong with being different as long as it works musically and structurally
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Phil Taylor
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Post by Phil Taylor on Jan 31, 2018 9:30:49 GMT
Can anyone understand how different top bracing can effect intonation? I thought intonation was all down to the nut, neck/frets and the saddle? I have seen a few interviews now and Powers says the Vee bracing makes you hear the notes differently Everyone's ears a different so could some player's hear the notes the opposite way so intonation is worse Just asking..........
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Post by jackorion on Jan 31, 2018 14:19:00 GMT
Can anyone understand how different top bracing can effect intonation? I thought intonation was all down to the nut, neck/frets and the saddle? I have seen a few interviews now and Powers says the Vee bracing makes you hear the notes differently Everyone's ears a different so could some player's hear the notes the opposite way so intonation is worse Just asking.......... What I've gathered from listening to what Andy Powers is saying is that, in his opinion obviously, the new V bracing allows the top to move in such a way that there is less interference with the fundamental note and the even order harmonics whereas traditional x bracing brings in more uneven order harmonics. Judging by his talk about watching waves on the ocean and coming up with this idea I would hypothesise that the theory behind this bracing is that the V provides structural strength whilst allowing the sides of the top to vibrate more evenly without the 'bounce back' from the extra bracing on an X style brace - if you imagine the top of the guitar was a pool of water with ripples emanating from the bridge, think of all the little waves that would bounce back from an X brace versus this new V brace... I don't know if that's the idea behind it all but that's my thoughts on it... from what I've heard on the few videos I've seen the guitar still sounds like a Taylor and I'm not sure I can judge the differences until a guitar is in my hands - I will say though that when Andy Powers redesigned the bracing for the 800 series a few years ago, and also changed the finish etc etc, in my opinion those newly-voiced guitars were a big improvement on the previous guitars, and, having met Andy, I trust that he does genuinely think this V brace is an improvement (even if the marketing is a bit 'gushing californian'!)
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