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Post by jonnymosco on Dec 21, 2021 23:50:37 GMT
An important issue is that the guitar has a history as a folk instrument (due to accessibility and versatility) and it has therefore been produced for the masses - just one reason many are shocked when some makers charge a lot for them. (It is a victim of its own success which explains why Segovia took it upon himself to elevate its status, or to inadvertently reveal his prejudice against the folk tradition of the Roma of Spain, flamenco... but that's for another thread.)
My son has studied the bassoon at school, as a pianist he had to learn an orchestral instrument. To buy even the most basic bassoon would be 3k, he was lent one in the end by a very generous benefactor on the condition we insure it for 15k... this is common in the classical world, pro violinists in particular cannot afford to own their instruments as they can cost hundreds of thousands.
As guitarists we are fortunate that we can buy something playable with ok intonation and half-decent tone for a few hundred quid, but also should be pleased that some luthiers have spent their whole lives stretching the tonal spectrum of the guitar to create phenomenal instruments which further the possibilities for the musician and music.
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Post by jonnymosco on Dec 21, 2021 10:35:37 GMT
Sorry, deleted my post, thought better of it. I should have learnt from past mistakes not to get drawn into these things. At the end of the day it's your money!!!!! I enjoyed your post, honest and shows that the 'names' out there can charge more despite the merits of individual guitars. Here's some pricing info from Kim Walker: Why are my prices not locked? With a backorder list of approximately 7-8 years, I am not comfortable with projecting the future value/prices of my guitars. The prices at the left are the prices that I would charge had you ordered a guitar in the past without a locked price. These are basically reference prices. I find pricing to be a tough assignment. What I have found by tracking the resale of my guitars (in mint condition) over the last 40 years is that they have typically sold for more than my current list price, often for substantially more than their original selling price.The prices that I have charged for my instruments have increased by approximately 10% annually, on average, for the last 25 years. Though, the price increases between 2007 and 2012 averaged 5%. Style A Special $45,000… includes AAA Brazilian rosewood, master grade European spruce, and a Hoffee carbon fiber case. Style A Deluxe $45,000… includes AAA Brazilian rosewood, master grade European spruce, and a Hoffee carbon fiber case. Style B Special $42,000… includes AAA Brazilian rosewood, master grade European spruce, and a Hoffee carbon fiber case. Style B Deluxe $42,000… includes AAA Brazilian rosewood, master grade European spruce, and a Hoffee carbon fiber case.
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Post by jonnymosco on Dec 21, 2021 10:27:49 GMT
So does this mean that you tried it and came to the conclusion that an audience can't tell the difference? I'll bring them round for you to try if you like. Is this the sort of thing you mean (a video I was requested to make following a similar discussion, but for classical guitar)?
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Post by jonnymosco on Dec 20, 2021 16:18:29 GMT
I would love to see blind comparisons like these - and even better if the identity of the instrument was hidden from the player as well as the audience. I'll see what I can do. Jonny I think it is clear from some of the comments on here that some haven't played a high-end sole-luthier guitar and therefore have nothing to base their opinions on. A recording cannot replace the experience of actually playing one, so I've decided not to make a recording. I rate many mass-produced guitars (Lowden for example), they do the job but cannot be compared to guitars by Jason Kostal, Rory Dowling, Ralph Bown, Stefan Sobell... all these makers produce guitars with presence, volume, projection, clarity, resonance and sustain in spades. In the classical guitar world, world-class luthier-made guitars start around 3k, a price level so much more realistic for players to afford. It is a shame that high-end steel-string guitar stores bump up the prices placing them in the luxury market (they also need to make a living though and provide orders for the luthiers), I'd advise potential customers to deal directly with the makers, it's all part of the ordering experience. I mentioned in an earlier post that ultimately a guitar is a tool to enable making music; I wouldn't advise anybody to spend beyond their budget believing they would be a better player, instead save some money and work on good technique (especially RH tone production). At the end of the day play whatever guitar floats your boat. Jonny
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Post by jonnymosco on Dec 17, 2021 11:36:41 GMT
Why doesn't the 'Tree' come with a certificate?
Jonny
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Post by jonnymosco on Dec 17, 2021 10:24:34 GMT
I must have had a wild night last night - looks like I bought a 32k guitar! I have my suspicions something's not right with it, oh well, it's an investment!
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Post by jonnymosco on Dec 16, 2021 14:45:15 GMT
I would love to see blind comparisons like these - and even better if the identity of the instrument was hidden from the player as well as the audience. I'll see what I can do. Jonny
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Post by jonnymosco on Dec 16, 2021 0:13:07 GMT
It sounds to me like you're talking about a guitar as an investment as much as an instrument... Not for me, I'm a player! But of course they can be a good investment too for many people. I own a number of sole-luthier instruments, all of them meeting my demands (or stretching me as a musician) and enabling me to make the music I love - at the end of the day, they are just tools. I like to think that the owner of the 32k Kostal is of the same opinion, if not, then I hope their purchase fulfils the need they have, whatever that may be. Jonny
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Post by jonnymosco on Dec 15, 2021 15:32:05 GMT
A lovely instrument, no doubt. But is it really built better and does it sound better than a custom Lakewood or Furch, that you could probably buy for £5k and get change for a kebab and a cab home? Does the high in "high end" mean quality or status? Because they are not the same thing. My Kostal replaced a Lowden O25, it was in a completely different league and at the time, not that dissimilar in price. Jason is now a big name, celebrities and famous guitarists own his guitars, the 'tree' has a massive upcharge, and 32k reflects the demand for his guitars - it's the same system in the art world. The controversial issue should be that people are prepared to pay 4k - 8k for mass produced guitars. Jonny
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Post by jonnymosco on Dec 14, 2021 19:07:41 GMT
a number of my pals got in before subsequent price hikes - Jonny Mosco of this parish was one. Those guitars have at least tripled in price in the meantime. Under 4k when I bought mine! But it just had wenge back and sides. I sold it to pay for a studio in my garden! Jonny
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Post by jonnymosco on Nov 15, 2021 21:55:52 GMT
Can you upload a photo of you playing it in your usual position and one of the Collings too would be helpful?
Jonny
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Post by jonnymosco on Oct 24, 2021 11:03:50 GMT
He's lucky to have Amanda! Jonny
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Post by jonnymosco on Aug 31, 2021 7:45:57 GMT
Thanks Phil Taylor, malcolm and brianr2 - I'm glad I made the demo as it will also be good for Ralph whose online presence is small, he can direct those interested in his guitars to it. Jonny
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Post by jonnymosco on Aug 29, 2021 22:59:32 GMT
I finally found the time to make a demo video, exploring a range of pieces and styles to give a taste of what Ralph's 00 can do. It is his preferred body size and I now understand why.
I hope you enjoy it and find some pieces you may know.
Jonny
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Post by jonnymosco on Aug 25, 2021 11:49:54 GMT
We are fortunate that guitars are relatively cheap. If we played the piano and wanted to purchase the cheapest acoustic upright it would be around 2k, Chinese and lacking quality. For a playable used, c.1k.
I've always bought guitars I can't afford, but which always inspire and help make the music I love.
Jonny
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