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Post by bleatoid on Jul 30, 2018 22:49:11 GMT
That's disgraceful Craig - for an instrument like that - not an issue I've seen elsewhere with Eastman who seem to get a very positive press across all their range of instruments - but as you say, spectacularly narrow-minded of the store that sold you the instrument as a quality, high end piece from the Eastman range. I suppose you could contact Eastman or maybe look to change the tuners - I see they use Pingwell - not a brand I'm familiar with (but that means little). Several other brands I've been looking at use Gotoh tuners which I have heard of. Stew-Mac seems a popular place with some of the members on this forum looking for hardware upgrades.... Maybe someone with more experience than me could chip in with some advice. Hope you get it sorted one way or another. Peter
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Post by bleatoid on Jul 30, 2018 17:15:28 GMT
Playing to a backing track might be less distracting than having the metronome going all the time - though you'll obviously need something to get the backing track tempo right when you record it first time round - I've used garageband and my looping pedal this way to try and correct my tendency to speed up through a song.
Peter
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Post by bleatoid on Jul 30, 2018 11:14:40 GMT
Well, I'm on very, very thin ice here, given my somewhat limited public performance track record (ahem!) - but a total lack of knowledge or relevant experience has never stopped me from offering an opinion before.....
Firstly, on the classical front - it's right and proper for them to have the music - they're trained to read and play from music from day one and they often need to follow long tracts of a piece where they are not playing, then come in at the right spot, on the count, possibly at a point of complete silence - plus it just looks right doesn't it?
If I'm paying to see a non-classical musician or band - I expect them to know their stuff and would prefer to get the sense of an artistic performance directed at me, rather than a recital of what they have written down in front of them. A reminder of the setlist taped to the mic stand seems about acceptable.....
The amateur end of things is different again - whatever they need to get them through a couple of songs would be fine by me at an open mic - I could only admire them for getting up at all - sort of......I can well understand that for many, music stand clutter and changeovers and fishing about through pages of lyrics or scrolling through ipad app stuff etc loses much of the relaxed, informal ebb and flow of a variety of performers just getting up for fun - it almost adds tension to the thing and removes the spontaneity that the whole session is meant to be about. I'd like to think they'd nailed their stuff, and the paperwork was just a parachute.
Peter
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Post by bleatoid on Jul 29, 2018 18:01:49 GMT
There is a very pronounced difference between arch top and flattop. You need to play both to see what you like. Then of course there is are makers like Paul Shippey who builds an brilliant mandolin called the ‘Axe’ which has a flat top but arched back. And Rory Dowling of Taran builds an arch top but flat back (like Sobell). In fact Paul’s Axe is only a little above your top budget 😉. Robbie Ah, man, those Paul Shippey instruments are stunning. Thank you for the mission creep assistance Robbie - most (un)helpful! (Note to self: stop dribbling at the mando-porn, Peter, and go practice something). We do seem to be spoilt for choice with quality Mandolin luthiers in the UK, covering a pretty broad spectrum of the higher-end price bracket don't we?
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Post by bleatoid on Jul 29, 2018 11:07:56 GMT
I must add as well that I have never regretted learning new instrument- they have all moved my musicality on in some way. Financially I might have regretted a few purchases! But the discipline of learning new skills is an absolute joy to me, and exploring what each instrument can do is all part of the exciting new journey we each take when we take up something new. Robbie That's a huge part of the rationale for this journey of mine Robbie - the smile of satisfaction from cracking a new challenge with some different parameters in the mix. But there's a gradient issue here too, isn't there - you need to be able to see some progress to offset the frustration and refill the enthusiasm tank. A couple of years back I was mad keen on taking up the cello. I had a cunning plan to avoid the "cheap starter" pitfall by getting a second hand Yamaha silent cello so I'd have a decent instrument with a decent sound through my headphones or Roland acoustic amp but for the most part my wife would remain reasonably sane and the local cats reasonably quiet. Then I did a bit of research and was deterred by comments (from musically experienced people taking up cello) along the lines that after 3 years of lessons they were finally seeing some stability in their bowing technique...... Martin's comments about his struggle with the pick reminded me of those issues - hence my (revised plan) to at least get a mandolin in my hand before taking the leap - though I still think it represents a shallower learning gradient than my cello aspirations. (hang on.......Mandocello anyone....?) Peter
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Post by bleatoid on Jul 29, 2018 10:54:39 GMT
Thanks Ian - for both those posts. Yep - I've been watching the ebay offerings and those two are on my watch list. I was also taken with a (lower end) Kentucky - only because it comes as a handy package with a load of tuition material, chord books etc. But most of the ebay offerings are f hole and your advice reinforces my thinking (as did comments from the other guys on this thread) that round hole (and A style) is the way to go tone wise (plus I'd be able to use my irig pickup with it, plus I prefer the aesthetics).
But your last comment about archtop is very timely - following onechordtrick's pointers I've looked around a couple more UK mandolin makers and like the others I've seen they are flat tops. Eastman make a big issue of their hand carved arch tops - others like Kentucky seem to press rather than carve, Is there a tone benefit here? - or is the arch top mandolin a hangover from structural build thinking before bracing engineering moved forward? My Martin sounds pretty good, but you don't see any flat top members of the violin family (to my knowledge).
Peter
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Post by bleatoid on Jul 28, 2018 22:14:16 GMT
Thank you, Martin and Robbie, for the insights and resource links. Those videos are interesting - I have just seriously downgraded my own self-assessment of pick competence! There's obviously rather more technical nous to this mandolin stuff than meets the eye.
Isn't it odd though, how on the one hand it is easy to become slightly deflated at one's instrument competence level - current or potential - whilst at the same time subconsciously justifying a move of the budgetary goalposts when pointed towards a superb luthier's website with lots of lovely pictures.
I am now quite clear in my mind that Mr Davidson's wife's beautiful inlay work will greatly improve my fretting hand position......
Peter
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Post by bleatoid on Jul 28, 2018 18:01:42 GMT
Hmmm - that's strong food for thought - my premise was, in part, that I should be OK going with a decent model of a respected brand because my limited competence level with a fretted instrument will give me a headstart - hence no need to try one.......
That said, I am quite happy with a flat pick, though four couses of two strings might deflate that confidence quite quickly.
Really helpful Lessons learnt story Martin - I think I need to go to the local chain store and try a couple just for the experience before any other next steps.
Much appreciated.
Peter
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Post by bleatoid on Jul 28, 2018 11:20:25 GMT
I’m the other end of the county so don’t know what goes on in “the far North” but folkinoxford.co.uk is a good resource. Hathway are very well priced and within your budget, or there’s a second hand Moon on Hobgoblin at the moment Haha - ah yes, the desolate frozen wastes of North Oxfordshire. Thanks for these Onechordtrick - excellent leads - had a quick look at folkinoxford - very interesting - we actually venture (very tentatively) into the distant South quite regularly for concerts (was in Oxford last weekend) - Plus Paul Hathway looks very interesting and very reasonably priced. Must be some folk clubs in the Banbury area - we're in Fairport land.... Peter
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Post by bleatoid on Jul 28, 2018 9:51:32 GMT
Thanks onechordtrick - good to know the "avoid a starter model" seems sound thinking, and another plug for Eastman as a reliable option noted.
Not heard of Paul Hathway so will look into that option and other small luthiers - but suspect they might be beyond my budget.
Folk club is an excellent idea - I'm Banbury area but not a member of a folk club, nor do I know of any - but I'll find one.
Much appreciated - thanks.
Peter
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Post by bleatoid on Jul 28, 2018 9:45:01 GMT
You cannot go far wrong with an Eastman in my opinion. My 504 that I sold to ianh (the one in his avatar) certainly lacked for nothing against mandolins three times it’s price owned by members of my mandolin orchestra. Personally I’ve always preferred the look of oval holes. There are also differences in sound. Trevor at Trevor TAMCO has more or less the full range of Eastman in stock. The 600 series btw have built in pickups. Hope that helps, Robbie It certainly does - thanks Robbie - shame I missed your 504 in the classifieds.... Peter
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Post by bleatoid on Jul 27, 2018 21:24:25 GMT
Apologies for the epic. Like you, I hate those “what should I buy for my GAS, please help school me” posts – this isn’t quite one of those.
But…..I have developed a hankering for a mandolin to open up some fresh avenues, interests and ideas, including backing myself on home recordings and to help me explore celtic and English folk music (or even bluegrass…). I don’t play in a band, or live, nor am I ever likely to. This will be for solo home use. I don’t want a starter / “budget” model (to "test the water") as I think I’ll stick the course, (and besides, I have a much more talented great nephew it will go to when I croak) but I’d like to make a more informed decision on something reasonably mid-range. I’m perfectly happy with second hand (in excellent nick) and my budget is around £500-£1000-ish (as I deserve a treat).
Background? I’m a poor intermediate acoustic guitar player. Pretty simple stuff – mainly folky / bluesy themes, almost exclusively fingerpicking – with my fingertips. I almost never use a pick, flat or otherwise (I can, I just prefer fingertips). Oh – and I have a banjo which I can play a little (fingerstyle rolls, not clawhammer – again just fingertips) the point being that I’m reasonably happy moving to a different string format / tuning / narrow nut width.
From my research to date (there seem to be very few mandolin reviews?), looks like A style (less cost in the fancy build, no major bluegrass focus), round hole (softer, warmer, no mix to cut through) from a manufacturer like Eastman, Fylde, Moon….etc (good reputation, solid wood build etc)…. would fit the bill? And almost certainly a mandolin (rather than any other mando-family members)? Probably prefer a UK brand if possible. I’ve noticed the Fylde website targets the guitar player / aspiring mandolinist in terms of nut width / scale length on their touchstone models….
So why not just go try some, Peter? Well, local town big music store chains have nothing decent so a day trip to a HobGoblin would be the obvious choice but they don’t appear to stock much by way of mid range stuff – bar maybe Ashbury? Then there are specialist options in the major cities or even Trevor at his wonderful TAMCO emporium – but those are a major day out for me – and besides – what am I going to do when I get there? a) I have never played a mandolin (or any other four course instrument) and b) I hate playing in public - I'd just clam up and walk out. I could maybe get a sense of playability and tone, but not to the extent I’d feel able to make an informed buying decision. This isn't like buying another guitar. Plus - I don't know anyone with a mandolin that I could even use as a point of reference.
Or...... I could put my faith in a trusted source of wide experience…...(I’ve bought a couple of guitars sight-unseen from forum members in the past and they’ve been great)......so…… if someone were to suggest that I really can’t go far wrong just getting an ABC from XYZ (yep – I know – there’s always “duds” and there's this issue called personal preference...), or that I should focus on going to PDQ for the day and they'd sort me out from a good choice, or to forget about round hole / f hole distinction or carved / pressed / flat tops as it really doesn’t matter given where I'm at, or that there’s a nice looking used 123 for sale somewhere (nothing in the Soundboard classifieds ATM), or to beware such-and-such at all costs.... then that would be really helpful.
Hang on - maybe you have a lovely mandolin that you just know I couldn’t go far wrong with and you’ve being thinking that it’s not been getting much play time recently given your other 3 that you've just bought......
Anyway- thanks for your patience if you’ve got this far, and all (constructive and biologically feasible) suggestions welcome!
Peter
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Post by bleatoid on Jul 25, 2018 22:56:12 GMT
Interesting thread - I wonder how "artificial vintage" works in this context - specifically how these newfangled torrified tops fit into the equation - do they prematurely hurl you into acoustic guitar maturity only to find that you shoot headlong into the decaying performance of old age (a kind of reverse acoustic botox maybe?) or do they really give you the best of both worlds - new guitar build quality from the current age of the finest guitars ever made, plus the warmth and played-in "bloom" of a vintage (but not decrepit) acoustic?
I'm not experienced enough to cast a view - but would welcome input from our luthier community.
Peter
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Post by bleatoid on Jul 19, 2018 22:44:53 GMT
Well I have no idea about the physics surrounding this stuff, but while I could be persuaded either way as regards the audio impact of different pin materials I do wonder why we still do it that way.
I look at my lovely Martin (00-18v) and think it really deserves better than a crappy and arcane plastic pin / friction-based string anchoring mechanism that eventually cuts into the ebony bridge wood.
Is there some glaring reason why all manufacturers don't use a pinless bridge as per Lowden (I don't own one) - has it been patented? Does it impact performance in some way that a non-Lowden wouldn't tolerate?
There has to be a better way than crappy-placky pins in the year 2018.....
Hasn't there?
Peter
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Post by bleatoid on Jul 19, 2018 20:53:44 GMT
Peter, in an earlier post in this thread you said: “I would absolutely love to be able to perform a song well to an audience, or even do some busking for charity”If you’d really love to do that - and if you can play, in private, to even a basic standard - then you can. You just have to stop making excuses for not doing it. Every single one of us who performs in public started with the same feelings you’ve expressed. We just decided we were going to do it anyway, and hey, guess what - we didn’t die of embarrassment when we cocked things up, we didn’t give up when we had a bad experience, and with time and practice and a determination to get back on when we fell off, we ended up exactly where you say you’d love to be. So if you would really love to do it, do it - and tell us here about all the highs and lows that are part and parcel of learning to perform. We’ll be with you all the way. Thanks for your supportive comments Riverman - I'll definitely share the experience if it ever happens. Must be a good subject for a song, come to think of it......
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