minorkey
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My main instrument is: hurting my fingers!
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Post by minorkey on Jan 10, 2021 21:31:26 GMT
My poor neglected mandolin has been collecting dust as a wall hanger, but it is pretty bad! I think the main problem is the bridge. It is just flat wood, no saddles to speak of. I did some measurements and positioned the bridge in the right place, and its sort of in tune, but the saddle lets it down. So...I want to buy a replacement bridge. Does anyone know of a good uk based seller online? Don't really want to go down the ebay route.
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Post by Onechordtrick on Jan 10, 2021 22:02:01 GMT
Flattop or archtop? Either way you’ll need to be prepared to do some work to make it fit. For a flattop you’ll need to sand it down to get the action right, for an archtop you’ll need to match the curve of the top to the base of the bridge.
Before you get a new bridge it may be worth checking how well the existing one fits. Is there a visible gap between the base of the bridge and the top? Is it perpendicular to the top.
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ocarolan
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Post by ocarolan on Jan 10, 2021 22:58:56 GMT
Measurement will only ghet your "almost there" when it comes to the bridge position, Larry. Moveable bridges can be handy or a PITA.
You need to check the 12th fret harmonic against the fretted note at twelve - they should be exactly the same pitch. For practical purposes on that sort of bridge you can only check the top and bottom strings.
If the fretted 12th fret note is sharp (higher in pitch than the harmonic), you need to increase the length of the string by moving the bridge away from the nut.
If the fretted 12th fret note is flat (lower in pitch than the harmonic), you need to decrease the length of the string by moving the bridge towards the nut.
Obviously this means slanting the bridge to do this - it will be nearer to the nut at the high strings and further from it on the low strings.
Trial and error is the only way - when you have one side sorted, do the other. Then go back to the first side to check - repeat as/if necessary.
The middle two pairs of strings just have to take their chances, though your saddle may be slightly compensated if you're lucky.
Once you have the top and bottom strings playing so that the 12th fretted note and 12th fret harmonic match (you can do this by ear or use a "tuner" if you must) then the intonation all over the mandolin will be as good as you can get, provided that the string height at each end is OK. Often excessive string height will cause out of tuneness when playing as the string has to be deflected too far and the pressure sharpens the note too much.
Good luck
keith
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Post by Onechordtrick on Jan 10, 2021 23:13:02 GMT
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minorkey
C.O.G.
Too many instruments, too little time
Posts: 2,992
My main instrument is: hurting my fingers!
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Post by minorkey on Jan 11, 2021 1:54:21 GMT
Yea I did all that Keith. Measurement from the nut to the 12th (179mm), then measured 179mm to the bridge and moved it there, allowing a couple of extra mm for the bass strings. It is in tune then, I get an octave at the 12th. Or rather I get a buzzy note that's in tune at the 12th. The problem is it has a zero fret, but the strings don't come into contact with it, even though the action is pretty low. Its basically firewood, but I can't afford a decent mando. Yet I like the sound they make.
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minorkey
C.O.G.
Too many instruments, too little time
Posts: 2,992
My main instrument is: hurting my fingers!
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Post by minorkey on Jan 11, 2021 1:56:46 GMT
Flattop or archtop? Either way you’ll need to be prepared to do some work to make it fit. For a flattop you’ll need to sand it down to get the action right, for an archtop you’ll need to match the curve of the top to the base of the bridge. Before you get a new bridge it may be worth checking how well the existing one fits. Is there a visible gap between the base of the bridge and the top? Is it perpendicular to the top. The existing bridge is terrible. It has no saddles, just a flat top with slots for the strings. And the adjustment screws do nowt.
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Post by Onechordtrick on Jan 11, 2021 6:11:48 GMT
Yea I did all that Keith. Measurement from the nut to the 12th (179mm), then measured 179mm to the bridge and moved it there, allowing a couple of extra mm for the bass strings. It is in tune then, I get an octave at the 12th. Or rather I get a buzzy note that's in tune at the 12th. The problem is it has a zero fret, but the strings don't come into contact with it, even though the action is pretty low. Its basically firewood, but I can't afford a decent mando. Yet I like the sound they make. If you have a zero fret then your starting point should be from there, not the nut. However if the strings aren’t touching the zero fret then I’m afraid it will never intonate properly . Without seeing it it’s hard to diagnose the issue. Does it have an adjustable truss rod? But get that sorted before you splash out on a new bridge. Can you put a capo on the first fret and play everything a semitone higher?
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Post by skyetripper on Jan 11, 2021 8:43:17 GMT
I've had a few mandolins in my time, all with moveable bridges. I've never been able to get the intonation perfect on every pair of strings and I think some of it is just a case of compromising to find where it works best for you. Having said that, if the strings aren't touching the zero fret, there is a significant problem with either neck bowing or possibly the nut needing to be re-cut.
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minorkey
C.O.G.
Too many instruments, too little time
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My main instrument is: hurting my fingers!
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Post by minorkey on Jan 11, 2021 9:33:07 GMT
Yea I did all that Keith. Measurement from the nut to the 12th (179mm), then measured 179mm to the bridge and moved it there, allowing a couple of extra mm for the bass strings. It is in tune then, I get an octave at the 12th. Or rather I get a buzzy note that's in tune at the 12th. The problem is it has a zero fret, but the strings don't come into contact with it, even though the action is pretty low. Its basically firewood, but I can't afford a decent mando. Yet I like the sound they make. If you have a zero fret then your starting point should be from there, not the nut. However if the strings aren’t touching the zero fret then I’m afraid it will never intonate properly . Without seeing it it’s hard to diagnose the issue. Does it have an adjustable truss rod? But get that sorted before you splash out on a new bridge. Can you put a capo on the first fret and play everything a semitone higher? No truss rod I'm afraid. Looks like it will remain a wall hanger...
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Post by martinrowe on Jan 11, 2021 14:51:05 GMT
There are a lot of mandolin jokes, most of which are based around the idea of: 'People who play the mandolin spend half their time playing out of tune - and the rest of the time trying to get in tune'.
When I started I had an experience similar to the one Keith describes. I don't think such a thing as a cheap, playable mandolin exists - there are a lot of cheap, unplayable ones. Apparently most of the cheap ones you see on eBay are souvenirs for holidaymakers in Italy. Eastman have probably one of the best reputations for an entry level mandolin and even then I don't think they're cheap. I've managed to get a good mandolin and even now I'm wary of changing the strings, apparently the answer is to put a piece of tape around parts of the bridge so that you can put it back in exactly the same position it was in when you started. Sorry I can't help. If you get it to work, don't meddle with it i.e. if it ain't broke, don't fix it.
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Post by Onechordtrick on Jan 11, 2021 16:09:28 GMT
There are a lot of mandolin jokes, most of which are based around the idea of: ... I've managed to get a good mandolin and even now I'm wary of changing the strings, apparently the answer is to put a piece of tape around parts of the bridge so that you can put it back in exactly the same position it was in when you started. Sorry I can't help. If you get it to work, don't meddle with it i.e. if it ain't broke, don't fix it. Easiest way is to change the strings one at a time; that way the bridge will stay in place. Downside of course is that you can't clean the fingerboard.
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Post by delb0y on Jan 11, 2021 19:08:55 GMT
On the plus side, when all this heartache has been resolved, you get to play Copperhead Road!
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minorkey
C.O.G.
Too many instruments, too little time
Posts: 2,992
My main instrument is: hurting my fingers!
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Post by minorkey on Jan 12, 2021 19:48:05 GMT
Its no good, literally and figuratively. I wonder if I could string it up as an 8 string uke...or even a 4 string uke
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Post by Onechordtrick on Jan 13, 2021 10:44:52 GMT
Its no good, literally and figuratively. I wonder if I could string it up as an 8 string uke...or even a 4 string uke Think you'd still have the same problem with intonation.
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Post by curmudgeon on Mar 17, 2021 22:59:21 GMT
Yeah, in '75, after a bluegrass jam playing my old d35, I was invited to join two different bluegradss bands. When I met up with one they asked me to play dobro and the other asked me to play mandolin. I'd never played one but my girlfriend bought me an Ibanez 524 f-5. I have had this one for some years, most perfect manfo I've ever known, and I've played a Lloyd Loar F5.
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