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Post by grayn on Oct 14, 2021 19:18:12 GMT
Back in July I bought myself a Yamaha LL-TA. acousticsoundboard.co.uk/thread/12824/I played it a lot, considering it has to share time with all my other gear. Anyway,I loved the tone but fancied trying lowering the pitch by a semitone, to reduce string tension a little. This I did and was initially very impressed by the increased depth of tone and how it made my songs slightly easier to sing , as well as the slight drop in string tension. But I soon realised that the guitar had lost a little of it's bite and some of the tone that had made me buy it, in the first place. So, after a few weeks, I put it back to concert pitch and yes, it's back to how I like it. Snappier, with better definition. I wonder if this shows a weakness or strength in the guitars design and build? Anyone else have similiar or disimilar experiences, with detuning?
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Post by Onechordtrick on Oct 14, 2021 21:26:35 GMT
Not sure that it’s a strength or a weakness; just that there’s an optimal tension, for a want of a better word, for a given guitar, set of strings and a player. I had a similar experience with my 12 string. With the strings that it came with it was easier to play and sounded better, to my ears at least, tuned down a tone but sounded better in normal* tuning with a set of lower tension strings fitted.
*DADGAD is normal isn’t it?
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leoroberts
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Post by leoroberts on Oct 14, 2021 22:26:01 GMT
*DADGAD is normal isn’t it? Get thee behind me, Satan!
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ocarolan
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Post by ocarolan on Oct 14, 2021 22:38:20 GMT
I would echo your experience entirely Graham - I have found with a couple of guitars that downtuning a semitone with the same strings brought about a slightly bassier, more sonorous sound which was initially appealing, but lacking in immediacy of response, clarity and in-yer-faceness compared to standard pitch.
I don't think that is the instrument's fault, it just happens. For particular songs/pieces it can be interesting and work well. Not necessarily better or worse; just different.
Most things are a compromise, and finding the right compromise between sound/tone, response and feel/string tension is always an interesting journey for a new instrument. I guess that's why we all obsess about strings, as different ones result in slightly different compromises.
Lovely looking guitar!
keith
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Post by grayn on Oct 15, 2021 6:21:56 GMT
Totally agree, Keith. "sonorous sound", is a perfect description. Even though I've been playing acoustic guitar, on and off, for 50+ years, I've almost exclusively done it in standard tuning and concert pitch. I had a couple of dabbles into DADGAD but soon reverted. I guess my guitar was designed and built to sound it's best in conventional tuning, so that's what it does. On the strings front, after trying a lot of varieties, I always revert to Elixir. I'm so conventional.
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Post by fatfingerjohn on Oct 15, 2021 11:16:31 GMT
Hi,
As I've noticed before I'm guessing my ears aren't trained/capable of discerning the finer points of the instrument, whether it's strings, tone wood or whatever. I just find I like a particular guitar or don't and haven't discovered the pattern for this, and don't think there is for me. It may also of course be defective technique!
Regarding tuning down I started doing this a half step with my 12-er to reduce the pressure a little (don't know whether it made much difference but didn't affect the tone noticeably). However I did find that the half step down did seem to bring me a little more to my comfort level vocally with quite a few songs in particular keys, surprisingly so. As a result I now have 2 of my 6-ers tuned down a half step and again it suits me vocally more.
I simply haven't noticed any tonal difference (other than of course it being a little deeper, which I quite like anyway). I haven't found any noticeable effect in the playability; maybe the fact that I don't venture much beyond fret 4 means that the action hasn't changed much for me.
I do have a 3rd 6-er tuned pretty permanently to Open D, a tuning which I like a lot and play in a lot. Of course this does change the tension much more as its a full step down on a few strings. The only issue I've had was a little buzz on the bottom E (now D) string in fingerstyle (caused I guess by the thicker string and the extra vibration with it being a bit looser) but I experimented with a couple of different single E strings and it's no longer a problem. (I didn't want to start fiddling around with the action.
So, that's my story and I don't doubt that those with either better technique or better ears (or both) will find the change more noticeable. I wouldn't change back however.
FFJ
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doc
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Post by doc on Oct 15, 2021 12:08:44 GMT
I’m also blessed with tin ears so that I don’t really notice any reduction in quality. My 12 string is tune down 3 semitones and there is a small issue when the capo is beyond 4 frets; the bottom strings can slip out of the capo’s grip. I’m not explaining it well but anyway it’s a wee problem. As far as tone goes with my hearing aids everything sounds tinny and without the aids everything sounds muffled. Buggered if I know why I keep playing.
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Post by Welshruss on Oct 15, 2021 12:18:51 GMT
I’ve been tuning down half a step since listening to Elliott Smith and Nirvana unplugged in the 90’s. My acoustics and my Telecaster are all a half step down.
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douglas
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Post by douglas on Oct 15, 2021 12:23:26 GMT
Nice guitar - the L series Yamahas are really good I think, and so underrated, or overlooked. Probably optimised for concert pitch EADGBE but whatever.
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Post by dreadnought28 on Oct 15, 2021 22:09:59 GMT
I’ve been tuning down half a step since listening to Elliott Smith and Nirvana unplugged in the 90’s. My acoustics and my Telecaster are all a half step down. Joan Baez has always tuned her guitar 1929 0-45 down half a step and the signature models built for her. She’s definitely not alone.
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Post by cgb on Oct 16, 2021 16:45:33 GMT
I agree I think they all suit their own 'voice'. I love my Fylde in concert pitch, but I find it's on another level in DADGAD or open D. I suppose as an 'English folk' guitar that is almost what it was designed to do.
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Post by bellyshere on Oct 16, 2021 16:56:56 GMT
I’ve often detuned for years and some guitars do sound better. I’ve taken the evil one step further recently and started tuning guitars off the standard 440hz. My old Guild D40 sounds just great tuned to 450hz. I’m sure it’s indiscernible to the ears really but I don’t know it just sounds better on some guitars.
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Post by Gregg Hermetech on Oct 22, 2021 10:25:57 GMT
I had to tune the low E down to an A for a Croz piece I was learning the other day and couldn't believe how nice it sounded.
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Post by vikingblues on Oct 23, 2021 11:17:05 GMT
I think because I always tune acoustic guitars down to DADGAD for most of the time that I try them out I end up getting ones that suit the lowered tension. I've never had one start started off sounding really good and then tailed off though.
I also find if I get a "used" acoustic that's been played in standard tuning all it's life it can take a wee while to adjust to DADGAD. At first it sounds uncertain but after a day or two goes by it's usually happy. That makes trying out used guitars tricky. Does a particular guitar's best voice suit a particular string tension, string type and playing style? Probably! Too many variables Mozart.
Mark
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Post by Phil Taylor on Nov 9, 2021 10:19:12 GMT
I have been trying this on a couple of my guitars in the last few months particularly on my short scale 12 fret which it seems to suit. Also this guitar is super comfy to play and even more so with a slight reduction in tension. This is dropped a semitone in standard tuning. I'm trying it in DADGAD at the moment. Phil Ps love that burst grayn :
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