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Post by delb0y on Jul 25, 2024 7:38:16 GMT
Not the best capo thread (although feel to discuss that, too) but more picking up on Scorpiodog's self-proclaimed "weird" rule for not using a capo, but instead learning the song in the key required to sing the song in.
I must confess I do love a capo. That said, I tend to play in a number of different styles and the capo only comes out in a few of them.
For my newest musical adventure - the swing duo - there is simply no need to capo up. Open chords are rarely used and a great part of the style is the moveable chords that tend to change every few beats. So, really, any tune (that we're likely to cover) in any key is pretty much easy enough with closed chord shapes. This goes for gypsy jazz, too.
For electric guitar playing - country,blues, rock'n'roll etc- which I've played in bands for 45 years there was never a thought about a capo either. It simply never crossed my mind
But.. for bluegrass it's essential. So many fiddle tunes rely on open strings and open chords. Loads of tunes are in Bb or A, keys that don't naturally have that open strings bluegrass sound.
And finger-picking... Again, for me essential on many levels. Both for the purpose of getting open strings in the required key, and for singing. Some tunes I can sing without a capo but the capo gives the backing a different sound by allowing certain chord forms. I like playing open, and I like playing with a capo as far as the fifth fret, it gives quite a different sound.
Recently when I had a bad shoulder I had to use a capo on at least the second fret just to be able to play anything. Thankfully the physio dept sorted me out, but I still like a capo on fret two.
Lastly, there are some tunes, Dallas Rag for example, that has some stretches in it that are near impossible unless a capo is used to get one up to where the frets are closer together.
Cheers
D
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dogwheel
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Post by dogwheel on Jul 25, 2024 8:03:28 GMT
Thanks Del, that's a great post which addresses most of the issues for me, and reinforces my forming opinion that 12 frets and a cutaway are the "way to go".
Robin.
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stringdriventhing
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Post by stringdriventhing on Jul 25, 2024 8:14:07 GMT
I use a capo at least 50% of the time, probably more. If I change the key of a song without a capo I'm usually using different chord shapes/voicings, which often sound wrong to me.
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Post by borborygmus on Jul 25, 2024 8:25:23 GMT
A guitar tone can assume a new colour with a capo, happily.
Peter
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ocarolan
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Post by ocarolan on Jul 25, 2024 8:38:14 GMT
Couldn't do without a capo. For fingerstyle pieces and fingerpicked accompaniment, fingering with a specific set of shapes can be essential to get the melody and/or bass runs accessible/reachable. If singing and/or other instruments are involved then a capo is frequently necessary to maintain the fingerings that work best and sound right. Strummage sounds different when played in different keys - the best sounding one may not suit my vocal range, so, capo again.
Pretty much what Gordon and Derek have already said really!
Oh and I do occasionally use various home made cut capos eg to play in E using C shapes - capo at fret 4 leaving bottom E open. Capo 2 with open 6th allows playing in E with D shapes etc. Some capos allow this with no modification, but the clamping action then tends to be off centre at the back of the neck - not always a problem, but can be. I have a Shubb with the bar and sleeve cut for 5 strings (you could leave the top E open instead if you like) and the rubber sleeve sectioned to allow different combinations of strings to remain open and/or for use on other instruments.
Keith
PS I prefer to capo at 2 or 4 when possible as the lower fretmarkers still work!
And, when playing with another guitarist I like to capo either a fair bit higher or lower than them and finger in a different key to match - makes a wider range of notes overall and gives scope for accidental and deliberate harmony. eg someone else playing in G with no capo - I'd probably use capo 7 and C shapes or capo 5 and D shapes. And vice versa!
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Post by fatfingerjohn on Jul 25, 2024 8:41:31 GMT
Interesting thoughts.
To me personally the use of a capo is closely related to the ability to play barre chords. I've never mastered the barre chords; very inflexible and relatively short fingers with creases in the wrong places hasn't helped. And it isn't for want of trying! Thus moveable E, A, Am etc shapes are out of my capability. I find my way round the problem in lots of cases with alternative fingering (cheats) which is particularly possible with fingerstyle, less so for strumming. But I still find that there are some keys which are virtually impossible without barre chords and also need to choose a key which fits the song well and, along with the vocal, is better with a capo.
I also spend a lot of time leading my group of old fogies from u3a and there is a wide range of skills within the group. I don't think we could function without capos as they are largely limited to palying in C, D or G.
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Post by lavaman on Jul 25, 2024 8:43:23 GMT
Why wouldn't you use a capo? -- A capo enables you to sing in a key that suits your voice. -- As delb0y said, a capo at fret 2 makes stretches easier. -- I love the sound of two guitars each with a capo on a different fret Also, some guitars sound great when capo-ed, others don't. I don't know why, but if I'm trying out a guitar with a view to purchase I always try it with a capo too. Iain |
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Post by ocarolan on Jul 25, 2024 9:10:37 GMT
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Post by PistolPete on Jul 25, 2024 9:26:59 GMT
I always find it weird how divisive they are - I did a video reviewing the cheapest ones I could find a while back, mostly just to see if it had any traction, and when I shared it to blues-reddit I came in for some real flaming from the capos-are-cheating crowd. I just can't imagine the same response on a plectrum review, even though fingerstyle is a perfectly good way to pluck the strings.
I think capos, like most tools, have their place and whilst they can be used to dodge barre chords I see plenty of better guitarists than me use them day-in day-out.
Also, who gets to decide what is cheating? Are partial chords cheating? Thumb over Fs? One-finger barre A chords? I think ultimately the best guitarists are the ones who know the most ways to cheat.
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brianr2
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Post by brianr2 on Jul 25, 2024 9:44:41 GMT
If the capo fits…
If it sounds good, it is good.
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Post by Onechordtrick on Jul 25, 2024 10:34:53 GMT
There was a view on a mandolin forum that I used to frequent that wouldn’t accept capos; to be considered competent you should be able to play any tune in any key.
Although I don’t sing and only play for myself I’ve found that certain tunes sound better a few frets higher. Certainly they could just be played uncapped further up the neck but you’d lose any open string sounds and would invariably end up with overly complex fingering. In the same way that tunes can work better in a different tuning the same can be said for capos.
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Post by scorpiodog on Jul 25, 2024 14:55:49 GMT
As it was a throw away line in another thread started by me that seems to have inspired this, may I be permitted to clarify my position, please?
I do use a capo on occasion, specifically if I have a particular picking pattern or riff that sounds better, or is more suitable for my voice in a key I didn't learn the song in. Also, I find it useful if I'm playing the guitar for somebody else. Also if I'm playing or jamming with someone where we have both learned a tune or song, but in different keys.
But with most of the songs I sing I try as hard as possible to interpret them to my own style, with as much of the original recording style as necessary for them to be recognisable and no more. Therefore, I don't need to learn them in the original key.
I do realise that this is unusual. We all attack this activity of ours in different ways, and this approach suits me and, as far as I have observed, very few other people.
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juliant
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Post by juliant on Jul 25, 2024 20:30:31 GMT
I use capos a *lot*.
My (remaining) three acoustics are all 14 fretters, but I found years ago that my hands are much better with 12 frets, so a capo most often lives on the second fret. And leaving the 6th string free makes for an easy drop-D when needed.
I love ragtime tunes and they're mainly in C, so if I'm doing a ragtime-style accompaniment to something someone else is playing, I'll capo up till I can play C shapes.
I also use them when finding the right pitch for my voice and a particular song. For example, Don Mclean has a lovely accompaniment to "Empty Chairs", but he has a tenor voice and I do not. If I want to use his accompaniment I need to capo *way* up the neck, and that needs both a decent guitar and decent capo.
(Possibly my most egregious capo use was on a 7-string classical, putting it in lute tuning and capo'ing at the 3rd fret to play renaissance stuff. It worked for me but seemed to upset a number of people)
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Post by curmudgeon on Jul 25, 2024 21:16:57 GMT
I regard myself as a singer who plays guitar, so as much as I love the things and have a fair collection now, the keys that I play in tend to be governed by my vocals.
I also played in bluegrass band (on and off) from '75 until about 2010, and whilst most numbers were in G, A, D, the capo was an essential piece of equipment. What amuses me is that there is a sort of secret law that banjo and guitar can and do use capos, Dobro also, but mando ... Nooo!
I confess that I have a negative reaction when I see an electric guitar with a capo.
(No "Onandoff" was not a Russian banjo player!)
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Post by juliant on Jul 26, 2024 14:36:13 GMT
I've sometimes found it frustrating when I've wanted to go *down* a tone or so, and I was once tempted to get a baritone so that I could capo it up most of the time and still be able to drop a couple of tones when necessary.
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