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Post by fatfingerjohn on Sept 14, 2024 8:57:04 GMT
Hi musicians,
The thread running at the moment 'I thought I was getting somewhere', which I don't want to hi-jack, encourages me to share with you proper musicians something I've just started (age 78 next week!). I know next to nothing about music theory (other than a bit about chords, progressions) and don't even know the names of the notes on the fretboard beyond the nut. So far my 'theory' is based around my ears. (I can hear some of you saying 'and it shows!'š¢).
Anyway, this week I did my first on-line lesson on 'music theory'!!! God knows why. I now already know
-why I'm often crotchety -and even feel quavery when I play in front of people -I only know a minim(um) of what I should -and I need to take deep breaths and learn how to breve.
There's even homework and the need for something called manuscript paper.
I'll try to let you know whether I make it beyond session 2. Now, where did I put that pencil and rubber?
FFJ
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Post by delb0y on Sept 14, 2024 9:15:43 GMT
I must confess I do enjoy the music theory side of things. I'm not very good at it but I can slowly unpick written music (I play the clarinet once in a while, and consequently learned to read music long ago - only one note at a time on the clarinet, of course!) which opens the door for a lot of written material that otherwise wouldn't be available. But it's also great to study things like chord sequences and start to realise how and why certain things are as they are. Of course, it can all be done by ear, but I think understanding music theory is a massive help and short cut too, ironically.
Keep us informed how you're getting on!
Derek
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ocarolan
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Post by ocarolan on Sept 14, 2024 9:38:11 GMT
I came very late to music theory and found that it tended to explain stuff I'd worked out for myself from practical experience and guesswork but didn't really know know why those things worked or didn't.
I don't think the theory would have been much use to me in itself until I'd already gained a working knowledge of how the things I wanted to do (eg transpose, use a capo and play different chords to match the original key, especially on the fly, find alternative chords, know what notes to put into/add to to make up specific types of chords, make my own chord fingerings etc). My own "theory" depended mostly on counting up and down from known notes on the fretboard. Just the way my brain works I suppose.
I still can't read notation (or tab) fast enough for it to be of much use to me, though I can work things out painfully slowly - I can do the notes better than the timing, unless I've heard what I'm aiming for. If I had a need to do such things then I'd probably have to make myself stick at it and read more. But I'm lazy!
All the best with your endeavours, John - a worthy task which will stand you in good stead.
Keith
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Post by martinrowe on Sept 14, 2024 10:09:53 GMT
I can echo the posts of both delb0y and ocarolan . I tend to move forward when I grasp something. A while ago I understood the importance of arpeggios i.e. practising the separate notes of the chords. The other day I watched a video on how to create harmony and it was all based on arpeggios - I like it when that happens. I find that understanding the theory is different from reading or writing the notes. Although they all go together they are three separate things I think. I watched a free OU course on Mozart and the way he wrote his music - it was detailed and fascinating. I had just enough knowledge to not get completely lost. The little I know was worth it just for that. Anyway, learning is good for the brain they say.
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Post by borborygmus on Sept 14, 2024 10:30:23 GMT
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Post by lavaman on Sept 14, 2024 11:10:42 GMT
I think its helpful to know a little theory. What's helped me is: -- knowing what scale notes make up a chord, -- where those notes are on the fretboard, and -- how to play different chord inversions up and down the fretboard. I found Bruce Emery's book informative and humorous "Musical Principals for the Skeptical Guitarist - Volume 1 the Big Picture" www.amazon.co.uk/Music-Principles-Skeptical-Guitarist-Vol/dp/0966502906
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Post by fatfingerjohn on Sept 14, 2024 11:39:35 GMT
The course I'm doing is not specifically guitar-related which may be a good thing. It's being run by a tutor via our local library/college and looks like only 5 of us on it, using Microsoft Teams, so live an interactive.
It was the title ('Music Theory for Songwriters, Composers, and Improvisers') that made me think it might be worth a go. Also that it was 'live' over 10 weekly sessions; if it wasn't disciplined this way my guess is that I'd just meander through it when I felt like it and not be disciplined enough. That's the plan anyway .....š
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Post by Onechordtrick on Sept 14, 2024 14:58:03 GMT
I was forced to learn theory at school but it was all by rote with no explanation of why. So I knew all the key signatures but no idea what a key was. The āmusical appreciationā aspect of the lessons was equally dire; a piece of music was played whilst we all followed the score. Periodically the music would would stopped and weād be asked which bar we were on.
Iāve tried to learn theory recently but find it hard to motivate myself to put the time aside.
Id rather be playing in my spare time!
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Post by fatfingerjohn on Sept 14, 2024 15:37:11 GMT
I was forced to learn theory at school but it was all by rote with no explanation of why. So I knew all the key signatures but no idea what a key was. The āmusical appreciationā aspect of the lessons was equally dire; a piece of music was played whilst we all followed the score. Periodically the music would would stopped and weād be asked which bar we were on. Iāve tried to learn theory recently but find it hard to motivate myself to put the time aside. Id rather be playing in my spare time! You must have gone to the same school as me!!
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Post by Onechordtrick on Sept 14, 2024 15:41:38 GMT
I was forced to learn theory at school but it was all by rote with no explanation of why. So I knew all the key signatures but no idea what a key was. The āmusical appreciationā aspect of the lessons was equally dire; a piece of music was played whilst we all followed the score. Periodically the music would would stopped and weād be asked which bar we were on. Iāve tried to learn theory recently but find it hard to motivate myself to put the time aside. Id rather be playing in my spare time! You must have gone to the same school as me!! Borstal? What did you do to get sent there?
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minorkey
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Post by minorkey on Sept 14, 2024 16:17:14 GMT
Nah, its only 5pm š
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Post by NikGnashers on Sept 14, 2024 16:35:04 GMT
I learned notation when I did my music course 24 years ago, and promptly forgot it all about 23 years ago !
I just use guitar TAB now, seems to be better for me anyway.
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Post by therealmichaelm on Sept 14, 2024 16:48:29 GMT
I wish I'd learned at least some theory when I first picked up a guitar - I used to play an "E" shape, and bar it for an F, but I did't know why the same shape 1 fret up was an F - if only someone had told me about the major scale!
All I can remember from school was something about breves, semi breves, quavers and crotchets - drawn on the blackboard not played on anything.
This guy does a decent theory course for anyone interested:
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ocarolan
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Post by ocarolan on Sept 14, 2024 17:54:02 GMT
- ........I used to play an "E" shape, and bar it for an F, but I did't know why the same shape 1 fret up was an F ..... That was a major lightbulb moment for me too Michael. I'd maybe been playing for a year or so, and imagined each chord would have a different unique shape - not surprisingly considering the collection of "cowboy chords" many of us started on. I was perfectly happy to accept that an E chord moved up one fret (with the appropriate additions to the previously open strings) was an F chord. I wasn't the slightest bit interested in why this was so. After all, an E note moved up a fret becomes an F note so obviously the chords wof those names would do the same thing if I moved all the notes by the same amount. And as I had a chart of all the notes at each fret on the E string I realised I had a whole lot of new chords at my disposal. Obviously the same thing would hold for Em. And then it dawned that open position A and Am could be treated similarly, and named from the 5th string on my chart. It took a while longer to realise that the simple C shape could also be regarded similarly, though possibly less usefully. The difference in note content between the major chord and minor chord was easy to spot, and gradually the makeup of these simple chords became apparent. Not in any technical way, but simply as "name note" plus the note 4 frets up (3 for minor) and the note 5 frets down (or 7 frets up) made a major (or minor) chord, however you put them together, and that six string chords just duplicated these notes higher/lower. All I needed was to be able to count from 1-11 and to know the names of the notes on the E strings (and later the A) to enable me to work out any simple chord. The other types of chords - 7ths, maj 7ths, 6ths, 9ths, various sus chords, aug and dim etc gradually dawned and were rationaised by my counting up/down from the name note to where the extra one was and either adding it by adding a finger, or revealing it by removing a finger from the basic shape. Transpostion similarly - if a song was in G with known chords and I wanted it in A, all I had to do was to count 2 frets up (or 10 down) for the name note of each of the original chords to find the new ones. It then dawned that C Am F G was just the same as G Em C D as the relationship between the chords is the same in each key (which is what the Nashville chord naming system in about as I discovered later)- not that I knew what a key was at that stage. A simple system which has served me well, and still does (even now I have come across lots of the reasons "why"), though obviously not to everyone's taste! We all learn differently. Or that's my excuse anyway! Keith
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cesspit
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Post by cesspit on Sept 15, 2024 6:38:58 GMT
Oh I've tried to learn over the years but realised long ago I'm not particularly bright and eventually gave up. What's amusing is over the years I have played alongside several pro musicians who have complemented my playing, using scale names, mentioning things like legato and appegio so it seems despite my lack of theory I am playing this stuff without knowing what I'm doing, simply because it sounds right. I can't read though I can eventually work out tab, I guess we are all different and get there in our own way. Just my ramblings.
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