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Post by NikGnashers on Sept 15, 2024 7:24:36 GMT
Oh I've tried to learn over the years but realised long ago I'm not particularly bright and eventually gave up. What's amusing is over the years I have played alongside several pro musicians who have complemented my playing, using scale names, mentioning things like legato and appegio so it seems despite my lack of theory I am playing this stuff without knowing what I'm doing, simply because it sounds right. I can't read though I can eventually work out tab, I guess we are all different and get there in our own way. Just my ramblings. Absolutely ! I think some people feel it helps them to know all about music theory, and to be able to read all of the subtle dynamics of a piece, in order to completely understand it and be able to replicate it. Others figure out their own way to do it, and just use their ears and trail & error to get to the same place. I'm in the latter. Although different, I compare this to DJ-ing. And, I know many will say DJ-ing isn't a musical skill, mainly because they have only heard some 'Disco Dave' type playing one record after another at a wedding reception, and for that kinf od DJ, the assumption would be correct. But, there are levels to it, just the same as playing an instrument. Some will study the science of 'Harmonic mixing' and the 'Circle of fifths', and make sure any effect is applied with the correct time signature (so delays repeat in time to the bpm etc), and use strict rules to decide which parts/sounds should be used together, or which should never be used together, etc. For people like myself, who started on a pair of belt drive turntables in 1980, and have literally just spent decades using my ears to 'know' what is good and/or bad, mixing sounds by trail & error to decide myself what to use, gets the same result.
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minorkey
C.O.G.
On book 3 of the Guitarist's Way, thanks Keith
Posts: 3,626
My main instrument is: Tanglewood TU13M concert ukulele named Kalea
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Post by minorkey on Sept 15, 2024 8:52:30 GMT
I normally play everything by ear, on piano or other keyboard instruments, never learned to read music, until around 2016 when I bought a recorder. That has taught me to read music, but only in the treble staff, so in order to play piano properly I had to learn the bass clef (still working on it). And though I can free improvise on pretty much any instrument, in order to learn to play guitar, to get to grips with it, I have to play from sheet, because otherwise I have no idea where the notes are on the fretboard! Coming from keyboard instruments where all the notes are there in front of you, playing guitar is like an alien landscape. But its one I want to learn, I want to get the OS maps out and navigate the rosewood landscape, and the only way for me to do that is by learning from tutor books with sheet music in, just as I did with recorder back in the day.
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Post by fatfingerjohn on Sept 15, 2024 9:01:28 GMT
Very interesting comments from a wide range of perspectives. Thanks. It clearly demonstrates that we each have different approaches and these will be highly influenced by our objectives.
If I look back over my 'musical' journey, and particularly from when I first picked up a guitar aged around 22, my own perspective would probably be very different if I'd had the time, energy and dedication to approach it differently. I've never been in a 'band' so don't have to relate to others particularly. I've never done any solo work on the guitar, everything has been 'chord based' to accompany singing and that was simply following shapes in a book without knowing any of the names of the notes on the fretboard. As such I've never felt the need to 'read' music and, although I can follow tab very slowly to help me learn a fill or a riff, this is largely to supplement my chord-based playing style. Of course I've picked up lots of the rudiments of chord structure, know the basics of how a minor chord, a major 7th, sus chords etc are constructed. But not really in a music theory way if you see what I mean. If I could go back and find the time I would have learnt more theory much earlier, done scales, learned the fretboard and things like circle of fifths etc, and perhaps have developed solo work where the theory and reading/understanding music would have been more relevant. But I didn't and 'am where I am'. I don't see me at my age taking that side of things forward. What I might gain from the course I'm doing is some of the nuances to extend my understanding of what I'm doing; perhaps be able to explain it to others who ask me for help; and possibly widen my songwriting into a better range of constructions. I still reckon that where I've got to is largely down to listening and then just working it out by experimenting, and these days the resources on YouTube are a great help. I'll see if I last the course until christmas!! FFJ
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Post by delb0y on Sept 15, 2024 9:07:50 GMT
I think learning to read music, garnering a reasonable level of music theory knowledge, even some ability to sight read at a slow pace on your instrument are all pretty achievable goals for anyone who has ever learned to, say, read and write and speak English.
With that in mind, why wouldn't you do it? It doesn't take anything away from any existing skills or techniques you have, it simply adds to them.
Win win.
For the price of a cup of coffee a day (as the adverts normally go) you can do this in just a mater of months. The price being measured in minutes, in this case.
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cesspit
Busker
Posts: 92
My main instrument is: Martin D10
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Post by cesspit on Sept 15, 2024 9:44:53 GMT
I find it very hard to break the bad habits formed over years of learning guitar in a vacuum. Very late 60s and I started with guitar, no tuners, just a tuning fork, book of chords and a record player. I picked up tricks by going to music stores in London and watching guys trying out guitars. Must say they were very patient with an annoying 13 year old asking "How do you do that?* I'd then rush home on the bus hoping I remembered what I'd seen and heard. Lessons were out of the question from a cost point of view and I'm sure some here had a similar musical journey. I find it amazing how we have got to where we are and looking back, even with the bad habits, or work arounds as I call them, learning to get to grips with this wood and steel monster, my best friend, has been fabulous. I salute you all.
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minorkey
C.O.G.
On book 3 of the Guitarist's Way, thanks Keith
Posts: 3,626
My main instrument is: Tanglewood TU13M concert ukulele named Kalea
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Post by minorkey on Sept 15, 2024 10:23:32 GMT
Very interesting comments from a wide range of perspectives. Thanks. It clearly demonstrates that we each have different approaches and What I might gain from the course I'm doing is some of the nuances to extend my understanding of what I'm doing; perhaps be able to explain it to others who ask me for help; and possibly widen my songwriting into a better range of constructions. I still reckon that where I've got to is largely down to listening and then just working it out by experimenting, and these days the resources on YouTube are a great help. I'll see if I last the course until christmas!! FFJ What course are you doing?
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Post by borborygmus on Sept 15, 2024 10:40:10 GMT
I think learning to read music, garnering a reasonable level of music theory knowledge, even some ability to sight read at a slow pace on your instrument are all pretty achievable goals for anyone who has ever learned to, say, read and write and speak English. Unlike most respondents, my interest seems more academic. I expect it will help my guitar playing, of course, but as Einstein said: āI have no special talent. I am only passionately curious.ā Peter
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Post by fatfingerjohn on Sept 15, 2024 10:55:36 GMT
Very interesting comments from a wide range of perspectives. Thanks. It clearly demonstrates that we each have different approaches and What I might gain from the course I'm doing is some of the nuances to extend my understanding of what I'm doing; perhaps be able to explain it to others who ask me for help; and possibly widen my songwriting into a better range of constructions. I still reckon that where I've got to is largely down to listening and then just working it out by experimenting, and these days the resources on YouTube are a great help. I'll see if I last the course until christmas!! FFJ What course are you doing? This is from my earlier post ... The course I'm doing is not specifically guitar-related which may be a good thing. It's being run by a tutor via our local library/college and looks like only 5 of us on it, using Microsoft Teams, so live an interactive. It was the title ('Music Theory for Songwriters, Composers, and Improvisers') that made me think it might be worth a go. Also that it was 'live' over 10 weekly sessions; if it wasn't disciplined this way my guess is that I'd just meander through it when I felt like it and not be disciplined enough. That's the plan anyway .....š
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dogwheel
Busker
Posts: 87
My main instrument is: Doodson by Phil-the-Luthier
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Post by dogwheel on Sept 15, 2024 15:28:28 GMT
I used to think that song sheets and chord charts were all I needed, then I started to understand and use Tabs, finally? a Classically Educated Musucian explained just how much more information was available from Standard Notation (rests, time and key signatures, note values, tied notes etc), I'm still no damn good, but, I just wish I'd paid more attention when I was younger, mind you, I still love it, so there!
Robin.
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juliant
C.O.G.
Posts: 417
My main instrument is: Lowden L23
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Post by juliant on Sept 15, 2024 19:23:03 GMT
I've had a chequered relationship with theory over the years. My parents sent me for piano lessons when I was young, and I passed Grade 8 before I rebelled in my mid teens. I haven't touched a (music) keyboard in the 55 years since, but I'm sure that a lot of what I learned in those early years is still somewhere in my head, so that a lot of things make musical sense at some level.
I then picked up an old guitar and Simon & Garfunkel songbook at my girlfriend's house, and found that more to my taste, so there was a lot of strumming from chord charts, and then I found tab, which is basically where I've stayed ever since, that and figuring things out by ear. The old blues players that are my favourites didn't use a lot of theory! I can still read music, but I can't say that it's central to my music making in any way at all.
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minorkey
C.O.G.
On book 3 of the Guitarist's Way, thanks Keith
Posts: 3,626
My main instrument is: Tanglewood TU13M concert ukulele named Kalea
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Post by minorkey on Sept 15, 2024 20:36:38 GMT
That's essentially what I want to play on guitar, blues
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