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Post by fatfingerjohn on Sept 23, 2024 14:51:35 GMT
Long running argument I guess; only the original version is how it should be played!!!! Or not??? There's some bad examples around and lots of evidence of people (including me!) who cover up their lack of playing/vocal skills by saying 'this is my version of ...'
But there's also some brilliant covers which may not be better than the original but are very different and have their own significant merits. Often they are simplified versions (stripped back) which appeal to me. Anyway, here's an example of a Tom Petty song, the original of which I like but is not a favorite (a bit 'samey' and brash), but here it is performed in such a way that it is very different and, for me, is much fuller, interesting and acoustically memorable.
I'll be interested in other opinions of this one and perhaps other examples of very different 'versions' or other songs which add rather than detract from the original.
FFJ
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Post by delb0y on Sept 23, 2024 15:27:59 GMT
My opinion of this specific one is that it is wonderful. I don't know too much about John Mayer - other than, whenever I hear him I'm totally impressed - but this performance, and the supporting guitars and harmonies is great.
I'm actually in the camp of one should do covers differently. I mean what's the point of doing it the same? Unless you're in a tribute band, of course. I don't think it even matters whether the cover is better or worse than the original. The mere effort of using someone else's song to say something of one's own is what is important.
As an aside here's another song from the same gig. Just beautiful guitar playing and tone in this.
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ocarolan
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Post by ocarolan on Sept 23, 2024 15:54:23 GMT
Sometimes changing things around a bit is an instrumental necessity, sometimes it is creative, sometimes it can be ability-related, but always it requires some thought and input from the player - a good thing. The end results obviously vary, and lovers of "the original" will tend to find too much difference disconcerting. But I'm with Derek in that unless you're in a tribute band you do what you can with what resources you have. You must love the song or you wouldn't be attempting to do it. That will show in your version. The more of you that there is in it, the more you can perform it with integrity and feel comfortable with it. That will show in your version.
Keith
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Post by scorpiodog on Sept 23, 2024 16:10:17 GMT
In my view, as with Derek and Keith, I can't see the point in sticking slavishly to an original arrangement when playing covers. It won't work anyway, and won't show any originality or stamp of the cover artist. Listen to a recording of the original if you want to hear the same thing every time.
As to whether covers are ever better than originals, I need only one example but could find several more if pressed: Prince might as well have retired the original of "Nothing Compares 2U" after Sinead O'Connor recorded it.
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Post by lavaman on Sept 23, 2024 16:23:34 GMT
I agree, best to try make the cover your own. Hendrix did ok with All Along the Watchtower.
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brianr2
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Post by brianr2 on Sept 23, 2024 16:42:17 GMT
i rest our collective case:
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Post by mandovark on Sept 23, 2024 17:45:58 GMT
It's not just cover versions - lots of artists reinvent their own songs at different times in their careers.
For example:
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leoroberts
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Post by leoroberts on Sept 23, 2024 17:55:37 GMT
I’m going to take issue with the very idea that ‘original is best’. I reckon our brains are in some way hardwired to put ‘the version we first heard’ on a pedestal - and, seeing as cover versions are as old as music itself, these very often turn out NOT to be the original version. But they’re the version with which we may identify an emotion, or an experience, a place or a person and therefore become ‘special’ and ‘best’ to us. I’ve said before on here that I’m often embarrassed by being told that a song I really like when I hear it done by one of us (or someone else) was originally performed by someone I don’t particularly like - Bob Dylan, John Martyn and Richard Thompson being 3 prime examples, philistine that I am 😀 I'm sure there are those who genuinely prefer Ewan MacColl's original of 'The First Time Ever I Saw Your Face' over Roberta Flack's version (and although Peter, Paul & Mary's version was closer to the original it is still, to my ears, better) but they are probably the 'finger in yer ear' types Sue me, yer buggers.
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Post by Onechordtrick on Sept 23, 2024 18:36:22 GMT
I have a “cover version test” and a playlist of covers that pass the test. Can’t find an easy way to share it but notable mentions go to Tori Amos version of Smells Like Teen Spirit, Richard Thompson’s Oops I did it again, Flaming Lips Can’t get you out of my head, Siobhan Miller's One too many mornings and Natalie Merchant’s Crazy man Michael.
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Post by ocarolan on Sept 23, 2024 20:57:46 GMT
Some random thoughts - The notion of singer-songwriters and bands writing their own stuff is a relatively recent phenomenon. Prior to that most popular music was written by professional writers and performed by others and hence differing versions of a song were common without any one version being regarded as "the original", although whichever version became most popular obviously would be the one that stuck in peoples' minds. Different versions by different artists released to compete with a just issued one were referred to as "cover versions" - ? to cover different sections/areas of the market? There are still areas (eg Nashville country stuff) where there are teams of staff writers, usually allied to a specific record label, churning out what they hope might be lucrative prospects when recorded by one or more artistes/bands. Now, many of what we now losely refer to as "cover versions" are made some time after the "original" and hence are not "cover versions" in the former sense of the expression. They can be legitimately referred to as ****'s version / my version etc. Yours pedantically Keith
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Post by martinrowe on Sept 23, 2024 20:59:44 GMT
Well that's Robbie McIntosh on slide so I'd say it stands a very good chance of being good.
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Post by doc on Sept 23, 2024 22:59:28 GMT
ocarolan I’m always very comfortable with pedantry. leoroberts I’m delighted to find that I’m not alone in disliking Dylan and Richard Thomson. I’m not fond of John Martyn but I’m fairly short of disliking him. Fun fact # 74. John Martyn and Richard Thomson’s ex wife, Linda, went to the same school.
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leoroberts
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Post by leoroberts on Sept 23, 2024 23:04:43 GMT
ocarolan I’m always very comfortable with pedantry. leoroberts I’m delighted to find that I’m not alone in disliking Dylan and Richard Thomson. I’m not fond of John Martyn but I’m fairly short of disliking him. Fun fact # 74. John Martyn and Richard Thomson’s ex wife, Linda, went to the same school. You old people should be in bed by now - big weekend coming up, you'll need your rest
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Post by cesspit on Sept 24, 2024 7:11:49 GMT
I played in a long term cover/event band and we would try to make many of the songs our own. I've never really approached guitar solos as a note for note exercise, unless it is a song such as Alright Now with a solo so iconic and recognisable. A big reason for making a cover your own is vocals. I don't think it is a coincidence two songs mentioned above include Bob Dylan and Tom Petty who both have a particular style that would be difficult if not impossible to copy, so change the song so it suites your voice. leoroberts says I should be in bed so I'm off....
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Post by fred7 on Sept 24, 2024 9:52:27 GMT
Following on from mandovark 's example, I've seen Eric Clapton play Layla over 30 times and I don't think he's done it the same as the original in any of those instances. A guy once asked me to team up to form an acoustic duo, him on rhythm and vocals whilst I did some finger picking. We tried a few things but he kept pulling me up for not playing it like the original. As there was often only one guitar on the original, he would want us to both be playing the same thing. He might as well do a solo act (which he ended up doing very soon after). I don't know how we were going to mimic the bass, keyboard and drums from the original. Music is about expression and making the most of what you have. There is nothing original about doing it the original way.
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