missclarktree
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Post by missclarktree on Oct 29, 2013 11:26:47 GMT
When I had classical guitar lessons many years ago, I was led to believe that acoustic guitar was just strumming chords as an accompaniment. Thanks to Youtube I now realise there's so much more to it. There's so many ways to play, so many sounds that aren't found in classical playing, and so much creativity involved.
As a classical player I never learned anything about chords, progressions, how to fit scales and chords together to arrange a melody and accompaniment, etc. 'Chord shapes' meant nothing to me because, depending what comes before and after a passage, the strings, frets and fingers used could be different every time.
Since discovering Youtube I've been really inspired by people like Sungha Jung and Kyle Spradling, so I guess fingerstyle is the direction I'm hoping to go. I've started working on Brett Duncan's Fingerpicking Guitar book, but it doesn't look as though the techniques I'm referring to are in it.
In 'California Dreaming' Sungha Jung creates a sort of percussive effect by seeming to bash the strings with his fingertips (I don't mean right hand damping with the base of the hand, and I don't mean bashing the 6th string onto the frets to create a clattering sound). It looks so simple but for some reason I can't quite figure out exactly how to do it.
In his 'Tommy Emmanual Chet Atkins Medley, Kyle Spradling starts off with a lot of right hand damping, and as the medley goes along, he brings a lot of other fancy techniques that sound really great. I've looked at Chet Atkins on Youtube, Chet Atkins guitar method books and transcriptions, but can't find these right hand techniques mentioned anywhere. I wonder if these people just had so much talent and creativity that they discovered them independently.? Most books seem to be about chords, scales, hammer-ons, pull-offs, slides and bends. If the books are described as 'advanced' it usually means they use advanced chords, not advanced right hand techniques which I'm desperate to learn.
My best hope so far has been a Youtube lesson on 'La Bamba' by LicknRiff.com. He makes it sound so easy but, call me stupid, I just can't get it. Am I making any sense at all?
PS I'm not even going to mention 'Heard it through the grapevine' by Michael Chapdelaine.
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Post by fatfingerjohn on Oct 29, 2013 12:28:10 GMT
With some of the names you mention you are setting your sights pretty high! But, perhaps if you've done some classical then your finger dexterity and initial training will be a great help. If I could play one piece like Sungha Jung I'd die happy!
I found myself in the opposite position to you. Having started about 100 years ago with a chord book, I only learnt 'shapes' and had no idea what and why that shape was made, just practiced the shapes and the changes until I knew them and my muscle memory took over. As a result more or less everything I did was to accompany singing, not soloing at all. Many years later, after a long break I have added to the basic right hand techniques I had but still largely accompaniment, although added run ups and downs etc. My ability to play purely solo 'tunes' is negligible.
So, if its soloing you want to do then others here will have to guide you. And, if you feel you have the basics to really look at right hand techniques then try justinguitar and, as someone else has mentioned, you may gain from finding a GOOD teacher for a while, but it can be expensive. I really suggest however, that you make sure you have mastered some of the basics before you try to expand on some of the more complex techniques, into which I would include damping, percussive playing etc. You need to be able to do the basics without thinking about it before you can hope to master the more advanced stuff. You may find this frustrating but the old adage of walking before running is true. (Don't let it stop you trying, but don't concentrate on page 199 before you can do the first few!
Good luck
FFJ
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leoroberts
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Post by leoroberts on Oct 29, 2013 12:32:32 GMT
Ditto to what fatfingerjohn said ... and Wild Violet mentioned some lessons (including justinguitar) I'm going to add to that jonnymosco who is an accredited guitar teacher, can teach most styles from classical to ragtime, offers them over youtube so you don't need to be living right by him and, furthermore, is a member of, and contributor to, this 'ere forum
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Post by scripsit on Oct 29, 2013 12:35:54 GMT
There are all sorts of variations of palm and finger muting possible, but I think what you are talking about is called by some the 'middle finger thwack', although it can be delivered by other fingers, too.
You draw the finger or fingers involved up into the palm and flick down on the strings suddenly with the back of your nail to cause a very percussive sound, sometimes accentuating an actual note and other times making a tone free accentuation of the rhythm (the left hand might be involved in this, too). While this is going on you are still using your thumb and other fingers to pluck normally.
It's been around for a while, and certainly Nic Jones was an exponent of the technique a long time ago, but one of the best and most effective modern users is Martin Simpson. I believe Al Petteway learned it from him. Both of these players demonstrate how to do it in their teaching DVDs at various times, and if you search for some YouTube videos of either of them you'll see it demonstrated frequently. It's easy to see if you know about it, because they don't seem to be plucking when the sound happens.
Kym
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brianr2
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Post by brianr2 on Oct 29, 2013 15:07:10 GMT
Steve Baughman is also worth a look for the "middle finger thwack", eg "Bony Crossing the Alps" in his book here and on You Tube Brian
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missclarktree
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Post by missclarktree on Oct 29, 2013 15:46:24 GMT
Thanks everyone for your thoughts and suggestions. I will try to catch up with some of the basics, and will have a look at justinguitar. Meanwhile, here's another good example of one of the techniques - not the bit where he slaps the guitar at the beginning, but the percussive sound that continues all the way through. It looks like just hitting the strings with the back of the nail - he's wearing picks but most players seem to be doing it without. I can't do this without causing the strings to ring out.
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ocarolan
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Post by ocarolan on Oct 29, 2013 18:29:50 GMT
Thanks everyone for your thoughts and suggestions. I will try to catch up with some of the basics................................. It looks like just hitting the strings with the back of the nail -.......... I can't do this without causing the strings to ring out. Yes, if you have little idea of chords, likely combinations thereof, song structure etc that would be a good place to start. Plenty of this stuff available via internet, but a small number of lessons with someone you can actually talk to, and be corrected by, might help. The bloke oin the vid is indeed smacking the strings with the backs of his nails - the percussive sound arises as he is also damping the strings by the bridge with the edge of his right hand - often (misleadingly) called palm muting. Hope this helps. Good luck! Keith (By the way, I'm assuming that when you refer to learning "acoustic guitar" you are referring to steel string acoustic guitar. If you've played classical things before, then you already have played acoustic guitar, except it was (presumably) a nylon strung one.)
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maninashed
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Post by maninashed on Oct 30, 2013 11:10:00 GMT
There are all sorts of variations of palm and finger muting possible, but I think what you are talking about is called by some the 'middle finger thwack', although it can be delivered by other fingers, too. You draw the finger or fingers involved up into the palm and flick down on the strings suddenly with the back of your nail to cause a very percussive sound, sometimes accentuating an actual note and other times making a tone free accentuation of the rhythm (the left hand might be involved in this, too). While this is going on you are still using your thumb and other fingers to pluck normally. It's been around for a while, and certainly Nic Jones was an exponent of the technique a long time ago, but one of the best and most effective modern users is Martin Simpson. I believe Al Petteway learned it from him. Both of these players demonstrate how to do it in their teaching DVDs at various times, and if you search for some YouTube videos of either of them you'll see it demonstrated frequently. It's easy to see if you know about it, because they don't seem to be plucking when the sound happens. Kym There's an in depth description of Nic Jones' technique here by Michael Raven. Might give some pointers, although I find most descriptions of technique pretty baffling to tell the truth.
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missclarktree
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Post by missclarktree on Oct 30, 2013 19:04:48 GMT
Yes, if you have little idea of chords, likely combinations thereof, song structure etc that would be a good place to start. Plenty of this stuff available via internet, but a small number of lessons with someone you can actually talk to, and be corrected by, might help. The bloke oin the vid is indeed smacking the strings with the backs of his nails - the percussive sound arises as he is also damping the strings by the bridge with the edge of his right hand - often (misleadingly) called palm muting. Hope this helps. Good luck! Keith (By the way, I'm assuming that when you refer to learning "acoustic guitar" you are referring to steel string acoustic guitar. If you've played classical things before, then you already have played acoustic guitar, except it was (presumably) a nylon strung one.) Thanks Keith. That gives me something concrete to experiment with. And yes, I do mean steel string.
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Post by vicov on Oct 30, 2013 19:47:56 GMT
Thanks everyone for your thoughts and suggestions. I will try to catch up with some of the basics, and will have a look at justinguitar. Meanwhile, here's another good example of one of the techniques - not the bit where he slaps the guitar at the beginning, but the percussive sound that continues all the way through. It looks like just hitting the strings with the back of the nail - he's wearing picks but most players seem to be doing it without. I can't do this without causing the strings to ring out. I think the effect that you are referring to is the sixth string slapping against the top fret. It's an effect that I use occasionally but I have no idea if it has a technical name but it's not difficult to do. Use the side of your thumb to slap the bass string while palm muting just that string - you just need someone to demonstrate it to you at close quarters & it'll become immediately apparent. Vic
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missclarktree
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Post by missclarktree on Oct 31, 2013 19:19:07 GMT
I think the effect that you are referring to is the sixth string slapping against the top fret. It's an effect that I use occasionally but I have no idea if it has a technical name but it's not difficult to do. Use the side of your thumb to slap the bass string while palm muting just that string - you just need someone to demonstrate it to you at close quarters & it'll become immediately apparent. Vic I've got that one, thanks Vic. There's a good demo on Steve Baughman's clawhammer DVD, which I have worked through. This is slightly different, but I'll be able to experiment a bit this weekend and see if it clarifies itself. But I think it's the absence of agreed technical terms and methods that's in the nature of informal styles that makes it so difficult and mysterious.
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missclarktree
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Post by missclarktree on Nov 3, 2013 13:39:05 GMT
A tentative eureka!
This is definitely the technique, but he doesn't say how to stop the 'chucked' notes ringing out - maybe left hand damping, but then what about open strings? Still, it's a little bit of progress.
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ocarolan
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Post by ocarolan on Nov 3, 2013 17:31:12 GMT
Well, a good proportion of the time of the time on that vid the notes he's hit do actually ring out, albeit only for a very short time as he then plays then normally v soon after. To get the damped effect you need to either damp with your picking hand edge (as I mentioned before) a fraction before each "hit", or with the same fingers (usually fingertips) you hit with but immediately after hitting. With either of these it obviously matters little whether the strings are fretted or open. Hope that helps. Keith
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Post by colan on Nov 3, 2013 19:48:04 GMT
That there Igor Presnyakov is blessed with a built-in drummer ! Great stuff. Ta. Neva 'erd ov 'im.
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missclarktree
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Post by missclarktree on Nov 5, 2013 13:44:25 GMT
Well, a good proportion of the time of the time on that vid the notes he's hit do actually ring out, albeit only for a very short time as he then plays then normally v soon after. To get the damped effect you need to either damp with your picking hand edge (as I mentioned before) a fraction before each "hit", or with the same fingers (usually fingertips) you hit with but immediately after hitting. With either of these it obviously matters little whether the strings are fretted or open. Hope that helps. Keith Thanks Keith - I've tried the edge of hand method with no success so far, so I'll try your suggestion of using the fingertips. I'm determined to get to the bottom of it, or die in the attempt! Thanks for taking the trouble to wade through that rather long video. Alison
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