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Post by jonnymosco on Nov 21, 2013 18:28:06 GMT
Excellent choice. On the Acoustic mag forum I ran a "I can play Angie" group, should resurrect it. I play Angie on my nylon string, works well, but I do go a bit flamenco-y. Have fun with it.
Jonny
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Post by stringdriventhing on Nov 21, 2013 21:52:01 GMT
Alison, you can play all kinds of stuff with DADGAD - check out Pierre Bensusan. It does lend itself to accompanying traditional Scottish and Irish music tho.
For myself I mainly play old blues songs and Americana stuff on the guitar because it suits my voice. Also do some more "folky" stuff like Bert Jansch numbers, Robert Burns songs and "folked up" versions of rock and pop songs. What I mainly listen to could be lazily classified as "indie rock" music, and is more associated with electric guitars.
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Post by ararat66 on Nov 21, 2013 22:27:35 GMT
If we're talking labels I think 'folk' and 'blues' music is pretty prominent here as opposed to say 'jazz' or 'classical' or 'world'. I have become more selective about posting because this is not necessarily the place for some things I may tentatively put out in terms of some of my musical threads and adventures which suggests some core interests that may hold. That's completely ok by me but getting back to labels I personally don't even go there when listening and discerning because its usefulness is so limited to my own experience that I would end up with such a complicated set of Venn diagrams to even attempt nuanced definitions.
Folk music could indeed mean the music from and of the people - and I would definitely put punk into that bracket - but that would probably be seen as unorthodox. Perhaps the term folk encompasses such a broad range that you need to be more specific, ie folk music of the British Isles, Celtic and Americana or something like that.
Folk music is after all a world wide cultural phenomena, Armenian, Greek, Turkish, Indian etc etc folk music - of which very little appears to find its way to this place.
For me I just love music - I expect most of you do too.
Have a good weekend
Cheers
Leon
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Post by stringdriventhing on Nov 21, 2013 23:35:55 GMT
'I have become more selective about posting because this is not necessarily the place for some things I may tentatively put out in terms of some of my musical threads and adventures which suggests some core interests that ..... I know where you're coming from there. I don't post about bands I'm going to see and stuff on here because (possibly wrongly) I don't think people would be interested. Pixies tomorrow at The Barras with my two daughters if you must know ;-) I guess people who are really nerdy about acoustic guitars, as a generalisation, tend to like "folk" music, whatever it is :-) No offence intended btw - I freely admit to being nerdy about acoustic guitars.
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Post by Mike Floorstand on Nov 22, 2013 8:02:59 GMT
One difference between folk and pop music is that if I play a pop song then I'll be "playing a cover version" - the song is strongly associated with the original performance/performer - whereas if I play a folk song, then I'm just "playing a folk song" (or possibly "interpreting a folk song", particularly if I'm changing the way it is normally played in some obvious way).
Interestingly, Jazz is more like folk in this way - here it is accepted that we play (versions of) jazz standards, even though the standard may be strongly associated with an original composer/version.
For this and other reasons, I'd say punk is a form of pop rather than folk music.
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Post by jonnymosco on Nov 22, 2013 9:12:02 GMT
One difference between folk and pop music is that if I play a pop song then I'll be "playing a cover version" - the song is strongly associated with the original performance/performer - whereas if I play a folk song, then I'm just "playing a folk song" (or possibly "interpreting a folk song", particularly if I'm changing the way it is normally played in some obvious way). Interestingly, Jazz is more like folk in this way - here it is accepted that we play (versions of) jazz standards, even though the standard may be strongly associated with an original composer/version. For this and other reasons, I'd say punk is a form of pop rather than folk music. Good way to explain it. I also think that even though Punk was adopted by the masses and gave middle-class disillusioned kids a voice, it was a conscious creation and rehash of Dada by Malcolm MacLaren - the Simon Cowell of the 70s? Jonny
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Post by ararat66 on Nov 22, 2013 10:28:46 GMT
I'm pretty nerdy about guitars and will seek out music wherever, folk and beyond so it isn't just a folky thing ;-) The Malcolm MacLaren phenomena wasn't all punk, I never was a fan of him - I like the comparison with Mr Cowell, it tended to give the impression that punk was a particularly London thing something which sadly often happens in the UK and skews the true breadth of cultural production and expression in these diverse Islands.
There are lots of 'interpretations' of pop songs, and plenty of 'folk' tunes inseparable from the original artist, so I think it may be more complicated than that although I think the observation is illuminating and gives a sense of where some of these ambiguous edges may lie. So much music gets pulled into so much other music anyway, think of all those blues songs that creep into rock, pop and folk and vice versa, so edges are very soft.
I would also say that punk wasn't just one thing and like 'folk' had a breadth to it and (these labels are a nightmare to talk about, apologies for any clumsiness and accept my unavoidable contradiction of myself) - you could say that punk was rock and pop music and folk music - they are not mutually exclusive I don't think. UK Punk ... or UK Folk or UK anything could even conceivably be described as World music although I suspect there wouldn't be many takers for that.
Really interesting thread.
Leon
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Post by andrewjw on Nov 22, 2013 12:39:39 GMT
We are off to see "The Bad Shepherds" in Exeter tonight...Ade Edmondson , Troy Donockley and Andy Dinan... They all play trad folk instruments but play punk music.. So I guess that must be fonk or maybe pulk ?! It will be fun whatever its called..
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Post by earwighoney on Nov 22, 2013 12:46:37 GMT
I also think that even though Punk was adopted by the masses and gave middle-class disillusioned kids a voice, it was a conscious creation and rehash of Dada by Malcolm MacLaren - the Simon Cowell of the 70s? Jonny Punk wasn't created by Malcolm MacLaren, it existed before the Sex Pistols eg The Ramones, Television etc, he seems to have been given credit for giving it a look again, which was taken from Television (Richard Hell). The latter band in question are probably as 'unpunk' as it gets in assocation; 11 minute songs with 4 minute guitar solos. Punk as a genre is a little bit of a paradox; it was never supposed to be a genre but like many musical forms, it's visual aesthetic came to define it over the musical form itself. I'm not a fan of Malcolm MacLaren's thumbprint on punk, but he did have a interesting contribution to 20th Century Music. His single Buffalo Gals, was one of the first if not first singles to feature sampling in such a form. Going a bit off topic...
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Post by ocarolan on Nov 22, 2013 13:22:59 GMT
This is being a great thread! Thanks Alison for starting it off. Have to disagree with your basic premise that this is "mainly a folk music forum" - it is primarily, by intention at any rate, a Forum for all interested in any aspect of playing/learning to play/listening to/talking about/performing with acoustic guitars, including parallel fields such as recording and associated gear, and plus a smattering of content relating to other similar instruments like mandolin (etc), ukulele, banjo and even a bit of electric and bass interest. Leon - don't hold back - you have posted some interesting stuff - ouds deffo within our remit, even if many of us can't constructively discuss them and their music with you, we're v open to you educating us! As with any Forum, the style/content/ethos depend on the contributions of its members - many of whom do cover many areas of folk music, however that might be defined, but certainly not exclusively that. "... mainly folk music"...? Well, it obviously depends on how you define it, and that, as the many interesting posts sparked off by yours amply demonstrate, tends to be largely subjective - and interesting! What do I think? Well I was about to put a few thoughts down when I came across a Facebook post from Phil Hare which says pretty much what I was thinking, but puts it rather better than I would have done - Phil says - " As a musician, I have scant regard for 'genres'. Most of the artists I have liked over the years seem to have fallen (consciously or otherwise) into this (non-genre!) category: from Richard Thompson to Weather Report, John Martyn to Jan Garbarek, Tom Waits to Tom Lehrer, and many more lesser-known names - often drawn from areas of music I have worked in. At the end of the day, there are rhythms, scales, melodies, harmony and chords - and ways of putting it all together. Then there is 'acoustic' (of which I am proud to be a part), then there is 'electric' (of which I was once a part). Much as I like some of the old Steeleye stuff, once it was up-and-running, it was a rock band with a traditional repertoire. The semi-pissed guy in the corner of a Glaswegian pub belting out 'Singing The Blues' to his mates, badly, has more to do with the essence of what people call 'folk'. Likewise, two half-decent musicians inverting and colouring chords and then improvising over a traditional tune like 'Lovely Joan' has more to do with jazz than Michael Buble or Harry Connick. 'Genres' were invented by the music industry as a kind of market research tool, and have been unnecessarily prevalent ever since. As long as you respect the origins of any music and perform it with a degree of taste, restraint, dignity and passion - to the best of your ability, who gives a toss about the rest? " The bold bits are pretty much what I was going to say - thanks Phil! Keith
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Post by Adrian on Nov 22, 2013 14:15:05 GMT
I'd say Country and Western is folk music, just played by different folk. Flamenco also. And even Blues. Music of the masses passed down by an 'aural' tradition about ordinary, everyday things, plus the odd social comment thrown in for good measure. I'd like to amend my earlier harsh comment about English folk music... I can bear it when there is no singing involved. Jonny Thanks Jonny.
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Post by stringdriventhing on Nov 22, 2013 15:23:23 GMT
Punk wasn't created by Malcolm MacLaren, it existed before the Sex Pistols eg The Ramones, Television etc, he seems to have been given credit for giving it a look again, which was taken from Television (Richard Hell). The latter band in question are probably as 'unpunk' as it gets in assocation; 11 minute songs with 4 minute guitar solos. Marquee Moon is one of my all time fave albums. Just thought I'd mention :-)
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Post by stringdriventhing on Nov 22, 2013 15:25:19 GMT
'Genres' were invented by the music industry as a kind of market research tool, and have been unnecessarily prevalent ever since. As long as you respect the origins of any music and perform it with a degree of taste, restraint, dignity and passion - to the best of your ability, who gives a toss about the rest? " Word
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Post by missclarktree on Nov 22, 2013 17:40:51 GMT
This is being a great thread! Thanks Alison for starting it off. Have to disagree with your basic premise that this is "mainly a folk music forum" - it is primarily, by intention at any rate, a Forum for all interested in any aspect of playing/learning to play/listening to/talking about/performing with acoustic guitars, including parallel fields such as recording and associated gear, and plus a smattering of content relating to other similar instruments like mandolin (etc), ukulele, banjo and even a bit of electric and bass interest. Leon - don't hold back - you have posted some interesting stuff - ouds deffo within our remit, even if many of us can't constructively discuss them and their music with you, we're v open to you educating us! As with any Forum, the style/content/ethos depend on the contributions of its members - many of whom do cover many areas of folk music, however that might be defined, but certainly not exclusively that. "... mainly folk music"...? Well, it obviously depends on how you define it, and that, as the many interesting posts sparked off by yours amply demonstrate, tends to be largely subjective - and interesting! What do I think? Well I was about to put a few thoughts down when I came across a Facebook post from Phil Hare which says pretty much what I was thinking, but puts it rather better than I would have done - Phil says - " As a musician, I have scant regard for 'genres'. Most of the artists I have liked over the years seem to have fallen (consciously or otherwise) into this (non-genre!) category: from Richard Thompson to Weather Report, John Martyn to Jan Garbarek, Tom Waits to Tom Lehrer, and many more lesser-known names - often drawn from areas of music I have worked in. At the end of the day, there are rhythms, scales, melodies, harmony and chords - and ways of putting it all together. Then there is 'acoustic' (of which I am proud to be a part), then there is 'electric' (of which I was once a part). Much as I like some of the old Steeleye stuff, once it was up-and-running, it was a rock band with a traditional repertoire. The semi-pissed guy in the corner of a Glaswegian pub belting out 'Singing The Blues' to his mates, badly, has more to do with the essence of what people call 'folk'. Likewise, two half-decent musicians inverting and colouring chords and then improvising over a traditional tune like 'Lovely Joan' has more to do with jazz than Michael Buble or Harry Connick. 'Genres' were invented by the music industry as a kind of market research tool, and have been unnecessarily prevalent ever since. As long as you respect the origins of any music and perform it with a degree of taste, restraint, dignity and passion - to the best of your ability, who gives a toss about the rest? " The bold bits are pretty much what I was going to say - thanks Phil! Keith Well, I find this all very encouraging and even liberating. I'm going to jolly well stop mithering and just enjoy it from now on
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Post by earwighoney on Nov 22, 2013 20:14:30 GMT
Punk wasn't created by Malcolm MacLaren, it existed before the Sex Pistols eg The Ramones, Television etc, he seems to have been given credit for giving it a look again, which was taken from Television (Richard Hell). The latter band in question are probably as 'unpunk' as it gets in assocation; 11 minute songs with 4 minute guitar solos. Marquee Moon is one of my all time fave albums. Just thought I'd mention :-) Virtual fist bump to you. I love that band. When I was 15-16 I spent ages learning to play the song Marquee Moon, including the really long guitar solo! To continue going off topic, what do you think of Adventure? Great album, underrated.
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