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Post by vikingblues on Jul 13, 2014 16:12:25 GMT
I used to play classical guitar a good few years ago. Took lessons. Got RSI and also got sickened of the restraints enforced on me regarding trying to be expressive. Totally disenchanted with the genre, the classical guitar disappeared to help fund the Tanglewood TW45 some 7 years ago. Maybe partly as a result of bits of classical and flamenco playing appearing on the forum perhaps I've recently started to get thoughts of playing some of that style again flitting across what passes for my mind. Now I steel have a few of the classical books, so I can sort of play some on a steel string acoustic, in particular the TW73 parlour .... Classical on Steel - Vals and part of a Bolero - Calatuyud.... but it's not quite right for sound on steel of course. I can't use my thumb nail / flesh on my right hand for plucking strings these days, and have to use a thumb-pick when playing. It's delrin picks I use and their tone is much more natural sounding than plastic, but is it a step too far for good taste to do that on a nylon strung classical guitar? I hesitate to investigate classical guitar forums about it as I fear to see the cries of "burn the heretic" for such questions. I feel the response to such questions may be more broad minded here. In particular has anyone tried it? I know my ex-guitar teacher would have kittens at the thought, if not apoplexy. There seems to be a much less rigid approach to classical guitar manufacture these days with electric pickups, cutaways, narrower fingerboards and slimmer necks being available. I know that Chet Atkins for example played nylon with a thumb-pick, but not exactly classical guitar genre though. Mark
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Post by michaelm on Jul 13, 2014 18:40:53 GMT
Not quite the same - I'm slowly working on Leavitt's Classical Studies for pick style guitar, and have also noticed there's quite a few pieces in Noad's book that lend themselves to this style also. Not quite classical music, but a thumb-pick on a nylon string (FF to around 3'30):
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missclarktree
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Post by missclarktree on Jul 13, 2014 19:41:53 GMT
I wouldn't worry for one minute about so-called 'good taste', Mark. You can only try it and see what it sounds like. You might need to try different picks, or possibly shortening or shaping a pick, but I think there's some skill involved in that. I tried shortening a pick and it didn't sound as good afterwards.
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Post by earwighoney on Jul 13, 2014 20:16:48 GMT
Many nylon string players don't use their nails, they don't use finger/thumb picks but nail replacements eg plastic nails/cut ping pong balls etc. If you are unable to use your natural thumb/finger nails that particular avenue could be worth exploring. I myself wouldn't use a 'normal' thumb pick but something that was under the nail like an Alaska Pik.
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Post by vikingblues on Jul 13, 2014 22:38:10 GMT
Not quite the same - I'm slowly working on Leavitt's Classical Studies for pick style guitar, and have also noticed there's quite a few pieces in Noad's book that lend themselves to this style also. Not quite classical music, but a thumb-pick on a nylon string (FF to around 3'30): That was an interesting video link Michael - including the bit before 3:30 - thanks. Re the studies - not quite the same thing as you say, but I reckon it was your Lleavitt's recordings that kick started me thinking about this. Given the comments you've been getting on your recordings the use of a pick doesn't seem to be causing the musical qualities of the guitar to suffer very much. I've noticed about Lenny Breu - he was known for blending many styles of music including jazz, country, classical and flamenco guitar - with a thumb-pick on nylon. I wouldn't worry for one minute about so-called 'good taste', Mark. You can only try it and see what it sounds like. You might need to try different picks, or possibly shortening or shaping a pick, but I think there's some skill involved in that. I tried shortening a pick and it didn't sound as good afterwards. Thanks Alison - I like your advice on the good taste. I would just be going with the thumb-pick - my other fingers / nails are OK (at the moment) thankfully. Long may it stay that way. I had wondered for classical style on nylon if I might need to file down one of my existing Fred Kelly Slick-Pick Thumb-picks a bit - but they work fine for me at standard length on steel so I'd try them that way first. I'd tried the sort of basic plastic thumb and finger picks you get in guitar stores a couple of times and they were awful - cheap thick plastic and sounded cheap and plastic, and I never got the hang of them. The Delrin material on the Kellys seem to give very close to a natural tone and I also felt right at home with the Kelly picks after just a few minutes - which I was not expecting at all. Many nylon string players don't use their nails, they don't use finger/thumb picks but nail replacements eg plastic nails/cut ping pong balls etc. If you are unable to use your natural thumb/finger nails that particular avenue could be worth exploring. I myself wouldn't use a 'normal' thumb pick but something that was under the nail like an Alaska Pik. Thanks for the points you've made there. I did have a look at the Alaska style picks, but with my thumb it's the skin just under the nail and going about 5mm around the end/point of the thumb that's the main problem, with the nail itself being OK. So the under the nail pick would probably be (a) rather painful on the damaged skin and (b) like with trying to use the thumb nail, there would be a danger of misjudging and catching the skin. Given the frequent deep cracks that appear in the skin I really don't enjoy a string catching in the crack and pulling it open! Had the skin been OK I would certainly have tried the Alaskas. I suppose at least I would be using the "normal" method for all but the notes needing played by the thumb. I think I can cope with getting the volume balance OK on the basis of the steel string experience. The angle of the hand will probably be wrong for the purist but I'm not going to be playing to a particularly high standard. You've given me food for thought - thanks everyone. Obviously it'll need funds at some point to get a nylon strung beast of some sort - so maybe a while yet! Mark
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Post by ocarolan on Jul 13, 2014 22:38:14 GMT
I enjoy the sound of many classical pieces on steel strings - many work just as well, if not better that way IMHO. Enjoyed your recordings - I play Vals on steel string too.
But, if you want to try a thumbpick on nylon strings for classical pieces then I'm with Alison, just do it and see what you think.
Keith
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Post by vikingblues on Jul 13, 2014 22:43:42 GMT
Thanks Keith ... my post crossed with yours there. I do think you have a point about many classical pieces can sound good on steel, and I do rather like the way the Parlour size guitars type of tones lends the right sort of sound. I recall feeling quite frustrated at how difficult it could be to get a projection of tone and volume that I needed when I used to play classical on a nylon string guitar regularly. So I might not like the idea too much any more when / if a try some in a guitar store. Mark
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Post by missclarktree on Jul 14, 2014 9:24:14 GMT
I had a little go with a thumb pick last night, and thought it sounded okay. Flamenco players usually rest the thumb on the 6th string, but I don't suppose it's compulsory if you could manage to play without doing that. I think it's worth trying anything to get round a problem and be able to keep playing. Good luck with it if you do decide to give it a try.
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Post by earwighoney on Jul 14, 2014 10:08:11 GMT
The nail thing sounds painful...
Have you tried ball-end nylon strings on your TW73? Give them a go and if thumb pick works with nylon strings there's no reason to not continue if you do find yourself buying a nylon string guitar at sometime.
When it comes to more makers being more flexible with nylon string designs, Cordoba seem to be doing a great job with their Fusion and GK ranges. I bought a budget classical not too long ago which for it's price was a pretty decent guitar. Even though it was a budget guitar I myself enjoyed the variety of choice of acoustic or nylon strings to choose from.
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Post by Akquarius on Jul 14, 2014 19:33:51 GMT
I generally use a thumb pick, no matter which kind of guitar I'm playing. I've changed to this habit a few months ago and I'm quite happy with the result.
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Post by leoroberts on Jul 14, 2014 20:54:30 GMT
I bite my thumb nails (terrible habit, I know) but only my thumb nails ... so it's ALWAYS a thumb pick for me - irrespective of what instrument I'm playing. This is why I'm so terrible on the piano.
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