|
Post by raggy on Sept 24, 2014 8:31:30 GMT
I attended my first class last night on playing in a band. Trying to move away from being a bedroom strummer.
The class is led by a flautist and has a mix of instruments in the room.
we will be doing Celtic stuff and I can foresee a time when we need to work out some strumming patterns. Any advice on common patterns or any pointers in an appropriate direction, on line or in print, would be very gratefully received
Thanks
Cam
|
|
ocarolan
Global Moderator
CURMUDGEONLY OLD GIT (leader - to join, just ask!)
Posts: 33,921
Mini-Profile Background: {"image":"","color":"c0cfe1"}
Mini-Profile Name Color: 182a3f
Mini-Profile Text Color: 733a1c
|
Post by ocarolan on Sept 24, 2014 9:13:04 GMT
Although I spent many years playing backup guitar in sessions, band and duo situations, fingerstyle, strummy and all points in between, I have to say that in this kind of music, a rhythm instrument is almost superfluous - the melody is king, and the melodies have their own rhythm, drive, lilt, lift or whatever you want to call it. Or at least they should do if they are played well - it can be all too easy to spoil this with inappropriate guitarry contributions. In those sessions where (wisely IMHO!) rhythm instruments are used, one guitar, or a bouzouki, or both if they are competant players, is plenty. More strummage than this is likely to overpower the tune and cause confusion wihen, inevitably, multiple players have different ideas about what the chords should be and what rhythms should be used. So the guitar players job is not an easy one - to support the melody and to complement the rhythm of the tune. Some players will also be able to add some harmonic interest, and bass movement in particular if these are called for. I'm not convinced that learning strumming patterns is particularly useful, beyond knowing the difference between what might work as a simple default rhythm for the commonest types of session tune - reels (4/4), hornpipes (4/4 but with a dotted "limping" rhythm ), jigs (6/8 - pineapple apricot - D U D D U D) and polkas (2/2). Often it's the beats on which you don't play that give the best effect. If all else fails, get the melody player(s) to tell you which beats they want as the strong ones. Best advice would be to immerse yourself totally in this type of music, recorded and live, to really get a feel for the style. You can't help but feel your foot tapping - that's the kind of response that needs to come out via your instrument when you play. Seek out local sessions and just listen, watch, and, maybe talk to some of the players (not just the strummists) during a break. You might find this a helpful resource, though it can be hard work in some of the discussions sometimes! Loads of tunes and references to recordings. thesession.org/ Two of my favourite players who excel as accompanists are John Doyle (check out his work with fiddler Liz Carroll) and Jim Murray (Sharron Shannon band) - lots of stuff on Youtube. Playing this kind of stuff can be such good fun, there's lots a guitar can usefully do to accompany melody players who appreciate it. Hope your classes go well - would love to hear more about them actually! keith EDIT - PS here's a link to JD's DVD on backup for "Celtic" (whatever that means) choons - www.amazon.co.uk/Irish-Rhythm-Guitar-Accompanying-Celtic/dp/B0002Y4TSS/ref=sr_1_5?ie=UTF8&qid=1411556171&sr=8-5&keywords=john+doyle
|
|
|
Post by raggy on Sept 24, 2014 13:29:54 GMT
Keith,
Thanks for your advice.
We were doing a piece called "The Maid on the Green" a 6/8 Irish trad piece last night with the two guitars playing a mixture of Rythm & Melody in the A piece at different times.
I take on board your point about not being prescriptive with the strumming patterns it is just nice, as a relative newbie, to have a reference point to start from. The class is a beginners band class ran by Folkworks at The Sage in Gateshead
|
|
ocarolan
Global Moderator
CURMUDGEONLY OLD GIT (leader - to join, just ask!)
Posts: 33,921
Mini-Profile Background: {"image":"","color":"c0cfe1"}
Mini-Profile Name Color: 182a3f
Mini-Profile Text Color: 733a1c
|
Post by ocarolan on Sept 24, 2014 14:18:13 GMT
The group sounds interesting, and hearing where it is run, and by whom, I'm sure the tuition will be of a high standard and well worth attending. Hope you'll keep us up to speed with how you get on. What other instruments are there too?
6/8 - as I said above, DUDDUD per bar is as good a starting point as any - 6 quaver strums per bar, with the strong beats on the first of each group of three quavers (or equivalent).
It can get a bit too "busy" sometimes though (see second example below), so you could try D-UD-U, (where the strong downbeats are the same as the previous example, no strum on the middle quaver of each group, and finish each group of three with a quiet upstroke just catching the treble strings.(fourth example below has this feel though not on guitar)
The tune itself can have a different "feel" at different speeds, and definitely when different melody instruments are used as they each have different and instrument-related characteristic ways of ornamenting the tune. Adding accomp gives yet more possibilites for changing the feel of the tune, so, at the risk of boring you, here's some examples of different (not necessarily great!) performances of The Maid on the Green done in various ways and varying results to illustrate the point -
Here's the tune au naturel, with no shortage of natural rhythm even if a bit "thin" sounding for most other than purists. -
Here it is with a almost constant DUDDUD pattern, which is a bit tedious, though maybe it would sound better if played a bit less woodenly and earnestly (and in proper clothes!)-
This one is rather more entertaining, with the skilful guitar player choosing to emphasise fewer beats, even upstokes sometimes, to great effect, though they maintin a constant DUD motion, not every beat is sounded -
If you listen carefully you'll hear that this one has basically the D-U D-U thing I mentioned (not on guitar, just the overall sound), though again rather rigidly and tweely (is that a word?), though would be great to dance to -
Flatpicked accomp - nice! -
And just solo whistle this time, though in no way lacking in drive, light and shade, though maybe a bit free with the timing for some -
Whoa, sorry, going on a bit here - probably suffering from withdrawal symptoms from playing this kind of music!!
Keith
|
|
mandovark
C.O.G.
Posts: 2,988
Mini-Profile Background: {"image":"https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/96/Birds_eye_maple.jpg","color":""}
Mini-Profile Name Color: ff003a
Mini-Profile Text Color: 05b724
|
Post by mandovark on Sept 24, 2014 16:21:24 GMT
What Keith said One thing that might be worth adding is that a lot of tunes played in sessions are also dance tunes. If you're playing tunes for a Ceilidh, what you do as the rhythm section can have a big impact on whether the dancers are able to follow the dance. The trick is to find ways to vary the rhythm that you're playing without losing the rhythm that the dancers are trying to follow. It sounds tricky, but in practice it can actually be easier to find the rhythm of the piece when playing for a dance: forty or fifty shoes hitting the ground at the same time makes it nice and easy to find the crucial beats! In the last ceilidh band I played with, our caller (and concertina player) used to like us to vary the rhythm patterns a bit within tunes, particularly if we would be playing through the tune several times to fit the dance. There are lots of ways to do this. One of the most obvious (though not always the easiest to get right) is to switch from on-beat to off-beat strumming. You can also try things like strumming in 16ths for one part of the tune and then dropping down to just one or two beats per bar for the second part. The most important thing is to learn to listen well. As Keith said, tunes tend to have a rhythm to them even if you're only hearing a melody. Try to get used to hearing that rhythm. It's also good to listen to as many other players as you can and pay attention to what they're doing with the rhythm. Good luck, and enjoy!
|
|