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doweling?
Sept 12, 2015 15:50:58 GMT
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Post by alexkirtley on Sept 12, 2015 15:50:58 GMT
I recently got a 70's ibanez concord 12 string in for a headstock repair (awesome guitar! Lots of mojo)
The headstock was once broken, someone then tried to repair it but bodged it up big time, so the headstock was about to snap again.
I loosened the glue to open up the original break (terrible glue so not too hard), cleaned out the old glue and it is currently clamped up having been re-glued, what I was wondering is would a couple of hardwood dowels provide a bit extra structural strength?
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davewhite
Luthier / Guitar Maker
Luthier
Aemulor et ambitiosior
Posts: 3,548
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Post by davewhite on Sept 13, 2015 10:52:23 GMT
Alex,
Some pictures of the break and repair and where you are thinking of putting the dowelling would help.
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doweling?
Sept 13, 2015 15:52:38 GMT
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Post by alexkirtley on Sept 13, 2015 15:52:38 GMT
Alex, Some pictures of the break and repair and where you are thinking of putting the dowelling would help.   That's the repair prior to removing the squeeze out Because it is a repair of a bad repair it isn't perfect, some wood must have been lost at some point so there are some tiny gaps around the edge, I'm thinking a couple of dowels through the repair will add additional strength |
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doweling?
Sept 14, 2015 10:30:22 GMT
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Post by alexkirtley on Sept 14, 2015 10:30:22 GMT
Thanks man, that helps, sends this guitar on the road to recovery.
It sounds brilliant considering the construction is fairly cheap, after this I just need to blend the finish and work on the bridge then she'll be ready to go
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richm
Luthier / Guitar Maker
Posts: 47 
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Post by richm on Sept 14, 2015 20:15:24 GMT
With this kind of break, I would go for the guitar equivalent of what Rthef suggested; rout a couple of slots through the break area (one either side of the truss rod cavity and inlay a couple of nicely fitting pieces of the same wood.
If you are feeling thorough then a 'backstrap' would help with strength. I try to reglue neck breaks with as little intervention as possible but when the neck has broken and been repaired already then its a different kettle of fish
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doweling?
Sept 14, 2015 23:22:58 GMT
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Post by alexkirtley on Sept 14, 2015 23:22:58 GMT
With this kind of break, I would go for the guitar equivalent of what Rthef suggested; rout a couple of slots through the break area (one either side of the truss rod cavity and inlay a couple of nicely fitting pieces of the same wood. If you are feeling thorough then a 'backstrap' would help with strength. I try to reglue neck breaks with as little intervention as possible but when the neck has broken and been repaired already then its a different kettle of fish I can't do that unfortunately, I don't have a router and can't afford one, I'll have to do a couple of straight dowels |
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R the F
Luthier / Guitar Maker
Posts: 1,135
My main instrument is: bandsaw
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Post by R the F on Sept 15, 2015 8:47:56 GMT
The routed option is, I have to agree, the better bet here and there are pretty cheap routers around if you think you might do this kind of thing again… but if you’re going for dowels, my instincts would suggest you bear in mind the following; (anyone who knows better - and there are many no doubt - please leap in and feel free to contradict. I may also be teaching my grandmother to suck eggs – but you don’t remind me of my grandmother):
The blue (diagonal) line is the break and the beige things are dowels. The break is going to want to open up at one end or the other (A). The strong place to put a dowel is in position 1 with lots of grip on both sides of the break. However, position 1 is a long way from the end of the break. Then again, position 3 is not a very strong place for the dowel because the shaded end is too small to grip well. Therefore, the compromise is to put the dowels in position 2: i.e. as near the end of the break as possible where there is still a bit of depth to hold on to on both sides of the break.
I’d still prefer the routed option, though!
Rob
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Post by keithambridge on Sept 15, 2015 14:44:00 GMT
I'd put a router near the top of your "Things to get" list if I were you Alex!
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leoroberts
C.O.G. 
Posts: 26,142
My main instrument is: probably needing new strings
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Post by leoroberts on Sept 15, 2015 16:17:03 GMT
Alex, is there nowhere (HSS or somesuch) from where you could hire (or borrow) a router for an afternoon? Actually just checked and here do them... so I'm sure others must do as well. |
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richm
Luthier / Guitar Maker
Posts: 47
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Post by richm on Sept 16, 2015 11:44:35 GMT
I think putting a dowel in at 90 degrees to the break won't do much if anything to strengthen the joint and you would be taking away from the surface area of the repaired joint that you do have. I see the finish is pretty battered on the front and the back so you could very easily plane or sand off a millimetre or two off the back of the headstock and glue a veneer of the same thickness over the back of the neck and extending past the break and onto the back of the neck. This will help enormously with the strength of the break. If you were to do this on the front too you'd be laughing!
I don't know where you are in the country but if you are anywhere near South East Wales you are more than welcome to pop over and use my router and somewhere I have a jig to make exactly these cuts
Rich
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Post by scorpiodog on Sept 16, 2015 14:17:06 GMT
Alex, is there nowhere (HSS or somesuch) from where you could hire (or borrow) a router for an afternoon? Actually just checked and here do them... so I'm sure others must do as well. Alex, be careful. Routers are wonderful bits of kit, but they do take some learning to use. The first time I used one I scorched the wood I was machining, and it took me a good couple of days before I was confident to use it with anything other than scrap wood. Also don't ever be tempted to use one without a jig or specialised bit. Apologies if you've already learned to use them. I was just envisaging your taking a router freehand to the guitar you are repairing. I broke into a cold sweat. |
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Jo whoever he is.
