missclarktree
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Post by missclarktree on Dec 6, 2015 17:50:41 GMT
I've developed a bit of a problem when trying to do flamenco rasgueados, e-a-m-i or anything where 'e' has to start.
It's as if my brain says, "Go" and then immediately after, "Stop".
It reminds me of athletes doing the high jump, where they lean forward a couple of times before starting the run up. I can imagine hesitating about starting the high jump or the pole vault; if you do it, you might win a medal, but in a way you wouldn't want to do it in case something goes wrong, like hurting yourself on the pole (not that I've ever in my life done a high jump or pole vault).
It's like having a stammer in my fingers. I want them to start the movement, but instead I just get tension and nothing happens.
I thought about giving up trying to do them well, but just allow myself to do them badly. Just relax and let all the fingers slur together. That didn't really work, so I've been avoiding it for the last few weeks, trying to let my brain forget about the problem.
Has anyone had this sort of problem? Is it real, or all in the mind?
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Post by vikingblues on Dec 6, 2015 19:58:51 GMT
Sorry - don't think I can help very much. The last recording you did of your flamenco playing it was obvious that your attempts at raseguados had far surpassed any attempts I might have made many years ago when I tried flamenco.
I suspect that if you had that hesitation you mentioned in a piece of your playing and a load of people were listening to it it very few, if any would notice.
My personal feeling is that if the rhythm you are playing before that raseguado is right and the rhythm after the raseguado is picked up in the right timing it'll sound fine.
Mark
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Post by jonnymosco on Dec 7, 2015 9:51:33 GMT
Not encountered that problem before, but may I suggest an exercise that may help?
You may do it already, good for finger independence... you can do this wherever you are, usually it's hand flat on table, starting with e scrape fingertip to palm, them a, then m then i. I suppose for rasgueados it makes sense to do it from the starting point of a fist and flick out your e first, then a etc. - you could do both palm flat and fist and keep going, people may think you're a bit odd if you do it in a public place!
Good luck.
Cheers
Jonny
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missclarktree
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Post by missclarktree on Dec 7, 2015 19:08:30 GMT
My personal feeling is that if the rhythm you are playing before that raseguado is right and the rhythm after the raseguado is picked up in the right timing it'll sound fine. Mark Thanks for the encouragement, Mark, but I'm afraid it's got to the stage where I can't keep in the right timing.
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missclarktree
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Post by missclarktree on Dec 7, 2015 19:10:14 GMT
Not encountered that problem before, but may I suggest an exercise that may help? You may do it already, good for finger independence... you can do this wherever you are, usually it's hand flat on table, starting with e scrape fingertip to palm, them a, then m then i. I suppose for rasgueados it makes sense to do it from the starting point of a fist and flick out your e first, then a etc. - you could do both palm flat and fist and keep going, people may think you're a bit odd if you do it in a public place! Good luck. Cheers Jonny Thanks Jonny. I'll give that a try.
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missclarktree
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Post by missclarktree on Jan 22, 2016 15:25:46 GMT
It's been a few months but (touch wood) the problem seems to have gone away. I'm now find a slight improvement in rasgueados, which has cheered me up no end!
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Post by andyhowell on Jan 29, 2016 10:59:16 GMT
It's been a few months but (touch wood) the problem seems to have gone away. I'm now find a slight improvement in rasgueados, which has cheered me up no end! Good news. What do you think has made the difference?
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Post by vikingblues on Jan 30, 2016 7:51:38 GMT
Good to hear that you find things have improved. Sometimes the mind just works on a problem in the background and solves it. Mark
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missclarktree
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Post by missclarktree on Jan 30, 2016 10:01:47 GMT
It's been a few months but (touch wood) the problem seems to have gone away. I'm now find a slight improvement in rasgueados, which has cheered me up no end! Good news. What do you think has made the difference? I think it's that I'm doing it slightly differently, curling my fingers up a bit more at the start of the movement and focusing my attention just on the little finger. Once that has started moving, the rest follow quite easily. The little finger might be dragging a bit too much, hitting the side of the 6th string first instead of the top, but I can live with that for now.
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Post by creamburmese on Feb 4, 2016 21:03:42 GMT
I cam empathize with your problem- I have been working on some trills for my part in Granados' Oriental for a number of weeks now - - it involves a double slur followed by plucking 2 (1 -2 -4 2) 32/ths - and I'm fine until I start racking up the speed to tempo, at which point my left hand seems to seize up and all the fingers come down together instead of one at a time, which of course doesn't give the desired effect at all. I had been working on the left hand diligently trying to get those slurs perfected, but only occasionally (apparently at random) did it work out. Then I had my guitar teacher watch my hands while I attempted to do it. Turns out that the problem was with my right hand m not preparing properly to hit that 2 and thus rushing like crazy, causing the left hand to rush etc etc. Concentrating on the right hand m seems to be having a marvelous effect! I'm hoping all those hours of slur practice weren't wasted ....
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missclarktree
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Post by missclarktree on Feb 5, 2016 18:47:24 GMT
That is strange creamburmese. Who'd have thought that the solution could be in the other hand? I'm sure you will reap the benefits of your trill practice once your brain has realised that the right hand is now behaving itself.
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walkingdecay
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Post by walkingdecay on Feb 6, 2016 20:48:06 GMT
I know this sounds daft, but I'll suggest that you try practicing while watching telly. I've had more than a few bugbears in my playing, such as a failure to get the stresses in the right places in those endless fours on bluegrass banjo and overstressing and over-counting in tremolo on the mandolin, but found that part of the problem was that somewhere in my shrivelled little mind I was expecting to make the mistakes and thereby sending the wrong messages to the muscles every time. Playing while watching the telly focused the traitorous mind elsewhere, and relaxed me enough to start getting things right more often than not. (Warning: Does not work on church organ, especially during services, and there are still no proper box sets of Z Cars.)
Apart from that, think of all those things you can do on your instrument now that you couldn't do even months ago, all of which only prove that you can do it.
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missclarktree
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Post by missclarktree on Feb 7, 2016 15:30:11 GMT
That makes a lot of sense, Mr Decay. Oddly enough I have done this with another tune that I've struggled with for ages. I didn't really start to make progress with it until I started playing it quietly while watching telly. I can imagine how the conscious mind can sabotage things. Naughty conscious mind. It also makes me ride my scooter over cats' eyes if I look at them.
PS Do you play before the service starts? I dare you to sneak in a few bars of Z-Cars and see if anyone notices.
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ocarolan
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Post by ocarolan on Feb 7, 2016 17:01:10 GMT
When we lived in Cumbria, one of the organists at our church would regularly use TV/Radio theme tunes as outro music - he'd start off with a very disguised version usually in the style of one or other classical composer and gradually "reveal" the tune - usually performing very self-satisfied smug grins as he went. He was way too much of a smart-arse, but it was fun. Don't recall Z-Cars though.
Keith
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andrewjw
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Post by andrewjw on Feb 15, 2016 16:27:06 GMT
When we lived in Cumbria, one of the organists at our church would regularly use TV/Radio theme tunes as outro music - he'd start off with a very disguised version usually in the style of one or other classical composer and gradually "reveal" the tune - usually performing very self-satisfied smug grins as he went. He was way too much of a smart-arse, but it was fun. Don't recall Z-Cars though. Keith Ahhh...memories! Apologies if this is getting OT..
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