|
Post by vikingblues on Jan 31, 2016 20:47:16 GMT
Curiosity got the better of me and I've gone and signed on. I have a feeling I'll regret it, having no musical creativity whatsoever. I've crashed through Week One, as the emphasis is on lyrics. Spent the rest of the afternoon trying to think up a few snatches of melody, but every time I thought of something it soon turned into a tune that exists already. I've had one idea - put a blindfold on, stand in front of a keyboard and pick a note at random. Spin round and pick another one, etc, and then the challenge would be to turn it into a credible tune. Hope you get something out of the course too Alison. I'm starting to get the feeling that rhythm of the words is just as important as the melody, and I'm "getting" why they are going into the rhythm aspect in some detail. Your idea about the blindfold and random notes couldn't be any worse than what I've tried ... I've spent a good chunk of time with two attempts at a melody first process. First just on its own with no reference points other than my croaking. Then second by playing a starting root (I) chord and working out a melody (in that key) from there, stopping where there could be a new chord and trying to find one that would fit the note I'd reached. For both these attempts I can only say in the words of Eric Idle voicing the Rincewind character in the Discworld PC game "That won't Work"! Total and utter rubbish. So this afternoon and this evening I've tried to create a decent chord structure and rhythm that would fit the unedited full lyrics in standard tuning. After a fair few hours of struggle I've got there! In the process I'm starting to get ideas for a melody that at least works. This standard tuning malarkey is hard work! So I'm back to my needing to hear the accompaniment in order to mentally visualise and sing a melody. At least it does produce something. Not that I'm helped by an extremely limited vocal range top to bottom of my croaking - doesn't half limit the note choice. Mark
|
|
|
Post by fatfingerjohn on Feb 1, 2016 14:02:43 GMT
Hi,
I guess this must just be me as no-one else has posted anything about this but I am finding it very unpredictable to get onto the course via future learning. Future learning opens fine, so does the course but then individual units (videos in particular) refuse to open; about once every two or three tries; and sometimes it then crashes the site and has even on 3 occasions crashed my laptop which then needed rebooting.
Is it just me?
J
|
|
|
Post by vikingblues on Feb 1, 2016 18:34:20 GMT
I haven't had any problems. Desktop PC with WIn7 and Firefox. Haven't tried accessing it from anything / anywhere else.
Mark
|
|
missclarktree
C.O.G.
Posts: 2,427
My main instrument is: It varies
Mini-Profile Background: {"image":"","color":"1979e6"}
Mini-Profile Name Color: 100605
Mini-Profile Text Color: 020a12
|
Post by missclarktree on Feb 1, 2016 20:52:50 GMT
I've had no problems either, using a laptop with Windows 8.1 and Firefox.
|
|
|
Post by fatfingerjohn on Feb 2, 2016 22:50:29 GMT
Thanks for the feedback; its obviously something to do with my setup; laptop, windows 8.1 via internet explorer. When I'm locked out of the course (frequently) I can access everything else on the internet so its not the connection. I'll try via Firefox tomorrow.
Regarding the course itself, I must admit to being struggling somewhat. I totally accept that I am not a songwriter and have never tried so can't speak from any knowledge or capability; so what do I know. But so far it seems to be some pretty detailed theoretical stuff when I normally find fitting a rhythm to something needs to just come naturally; let it go and see where it leads you; rather than counting syllables in each line, finding the syllable with the emphasis and so on. But I'll stick with it; it may make more sense later ....
John
|
|
|
Post by vikingblues on Feb 3, 2016 12:38:42 GMT
Interesting to see what you said there about rhythm John. I find myself reacting in very much the same way as you - the rhythm being something that comes naturally rather than being a result of analysis. I certainly found the idea of counting syllables for every line to be one that would most likely kill any enthusiasm I might have for working on a song - and I think it would produce a very rigid artificial framework that would also kill the song itself. The impression I've got from near 3 weeks complete on the course material is that most of the contributing artists are talking of their experience and offering advice that is very much centred in the intuitive process of song writing. They may suggest techniques that point you in a direction of the way you look at a song writing project, but the things they suggest you do with those techniques are intuitive things. I can't help feeling song writing is a subject that is very tricky for an overly academic approach. I'm certainly glad from that point of view that there is a mix of academic and practical in the lessons, or I'd have dropped out by now. To be fair to the academics involved in the teaching of the course the range of abilities of the participants is so huge it must make their job so much more tricky. They're trying to cater for people who are already writing songs, and also at the other end of the scale for those who might even find clapping in time to be tricky. Overall, despite my reservations, I do reckon that the course is of a remarkably high standard for something that is free. Mark
|
|
|
Post by vikingblues on Feb 21, 2016 18:16:28 GMT
I think the fact I've not had the time to visit the forum, read posts, leave comments, start threads etc show how much of my time this music course has taken up. I hope you're all tickety-boo. I'm nearly finished the course except for a final few checks and a look at things not yet available because I'm ahead of schedule by a couple of weeks. It has been worthwhile and remarkably good for something free. It perhaps could be better called a name that makes it clear it's only the music part of songwriting that's covered and not the lyric writing. Though it does have very useful advice on how to musically and rhythmically interpret a set of lyrics. The highlight of each week has without doubt been the Martin Simpson weekly update as he goes through the same process of fitting the same lyrics to music. I have had someone say that the style of my final draft for the song (now a couple of weeks old) is not dissimilar to his. Would that it was of similar quality, but being fingerstyle guitar and in Csus2 and given my deep admiration of him as a guitarist it's not surprising that his influence will be there to some degree. I did find that as the course progressed many of Martin Simpsons thoughts for how the song should be structured chimed with my own existing thoughts - would that I could have done such beautiful fills and closing statement to the song as he did. Hopefully in a day or two I'll be able to start to catch up on forum posts - though I see it'll be a big task! In the meantime I thought I'd just post a link to my (far from perfect) final draft - which I made as much of a challenge as possible by using the full set of lyrics by Matt Black. My first try was a heavily edited version of the lyrics which made it much simpler. "My Town - Draft 3"That link is to an old Soundcloud account I used to use a lot - I used it this time so it could be linked with the courses own Soundcloud page. Interesting what a huge variety of styles and accompaniments and melodies on their page. "Courses Soudcloud Page"Mark
|
|
missclarktree
C.O.G.
Posts: 2,427
My main instrument is: It varies
Mini-Profile Background: {"image":"","color":"1979e6"}
Mini-Profile Name Color: 100605
Mini-Profile Text Color: 020a12
|
Post by missclarktree on Feb 21, 2016 18:45:30 GMT
I'm amazed at your dedication to make it through the course, Mark, and I like your song a lot better than the ones they came up with.
I'm afraid I couldn't stick with it at all. I thought it was like teaching someone to write a novel by explaining the rules of grammar. It's impossible without an idea, and I just haven't got one, and never have had. Also I wasn't at all inspired by the lyrics. I should have responded by writing my own lyrics but, again, I have to wait for inspiration. I enjoy writing lyrics that make me laugh, even if no-one else finds them funny, and you can't force it.
But look on the bright side - I've signed up for 'food as medicine' which starts in May.
|
|
|
Post by vikingblues on Feb 22, 2016 19:35:33 GMT
Fair points Alison. I must admit I was totally stumped for any ideas for my own song and found the subject matter of a "home town" uninspiring. I did quite like the chorus lines, and I did get enthused by watching Martin Simpson. So that was enough to motivate me to get through the technical aspects. The technical aspects were quite prominent and I did find the over-theorising a bit hard to bear. All that stuff about verse structure and is it A B A B or is it A B A1 B1 left me cold, and also lost me a point on my final test (grey areas where a value judgement is required should not have just one correct answer). To be honest all 3 songs I made were quite early in the courses process so I maybe didn't use as much course material ideas in the songs as I could. There were a few useful pointers though - BUT if I don't write lyrics I'm not sure what I've learned will be put too often into practice. You did well to find another course of interest - there's so many of these free courses my mind shuts down scrolling through them all and it's just also shown to me how narrow my fields of interest are. I better miss out on the course about "The Discovery of the Higgs Bosun" as it's already started .... and I don't want to be a bosun on a ship anyway! Now onto the backlog of forum posts for a while. Mark
|
|
|
Post by andyhowell on Feb 23, 2016 12:27:46 GMT
Songwriting workshops and lessons are always a mixed blessing. It is nice to have some ideas as to where to start but I always feel overloaded and tend to simply concentrate on what has caught my imagination.
I was recently at a Political Song workshop run by Robb Johnson. Although there ae some great political and protest songs around there is also a lot of clichéd stuff. Johnson writes lovely stories and melodies that are hard hitting but stand up well to most things.
I enjoyed the day with him. He got us writing in twos (not my thing). I wa paired with somebody I vaguely knew who wanted to write a song about the closure of the steel industry to a reasonably well known tune. I helped her with the lyrics, changed the swing of the chorus and added a middle 8 for some variation. (I've never hear the finished product).
Although enjoyed the day I was beginning to think it pretty worthless in terms of skill. And then he simply suggested looking back over family history as there is always something interesting there. Right away I thought of my grandparents and a song — Herbert and Bertha — started to emerge which is now almost finished; it is mainly a lyrically focussed song and I'm taking my time to get all of the verses reasonably strong.
That simple insight was worth the cost. These songs don't have to be dramatic or about big events. They just need to resonate.
|
|
Riverman
Artist / Performer
Posts: 7,348
|
Post by Riverman on Feb 23, 2016 12:54:14 GMT
These songs don't have to be dramatic or about big events. They just need to resonate. Amen to that Andy
|
|
|
Post by vikingblues on Feb 23, 2016 18:42:58 GMT
These songs don't have to be dramatic or about big events. They just need to resonate. Amen to that Andy I'm with you both there. You're right too Andy about how a simple insight can be worth more than hours of analytical approach. Mark
|
|
medwards
Sore Fingers
Posts: 13
My main instrument is: Turner 85CE, Farida D 62-E, Seagull S12
|
Post by medwards on Mar 3, 2016 0:32:23 GMT
I signed on to this Unversity of Sheffied course, and have dutifully progressed through 6 weeks of activities and exercises.It has been a very high quality affair. A variety of videos of musicians from thrash metal to folk artists, and students of song, to seeing Martin Simpson getting a magnificent melody from the given poem to set to music. Very worthwhile and the format of the course built a sense of community amongst the participants in a really positive way. What impressed me most was that the course creator and course mentors responded throughout to guide and encourage. Recommended to anyone who likes songs
|
|
medwards
Sore Fingers
Posts: 13
My main instrument is: Turner 85CE, Farida D 62-E, Seagull S12
|
Post by medwards on Mar 3, 2016 12:09:24 GMT
Vikingblues I liked your final "My Town" song for the course. It has highlighted to me that need to get some recording kit together. Do you have an elaborate mic or recorder setup to get that clear and resonant sound you captured?
|
|
|
Post by vikingblues on Mar 3, 2016 12:44:37 GMT
Hi medwards - I'm glad someone else got something out of the course and enjoyed it. Many thanks for your positive comments on my attempt- it was a challenge harnessing those lyrics rhythmically. On to your query on recording set up. Recording vocals I use an AKG C3000. A large diaphragm condenser microphone. About £120 I think. Recording set up for my acoustic guitar is not quite as simple and it took a long time to find the right combination for me. I now use two Avantone CK-1 small condenser microphones that sit on a T-Bar stand. The stand means they are placed pretty well an equal distance from the guitar which avoids out of phase issues. The Avantones aren't low budget but at £120 a time, but that's a lot less than many - they give me as much as I need for my level. They really excel at recording acoustic guitar - much better than large diaphragm microphones I have tried in the past and still use for vocals. The use of two microphones adds a lot to the sound quality to my ears. These Avantones have 3 inter-changeable capsules and my usual is to have one with a cardioid pattern capsule, and one with an Omni pattern. The cardioid points at the "traditional" 12th fret, and the Omni points to between the bridge and tail end of the guitar. I find the Omni is very valuable in that it picks up a bigger range of the sounds that are coming from all over the guitar. To my ears the cardioid on it's own can be a bit clinical and misses some of the resonances and sounds that I like. I need as much help as I can from my gear to make me sound good enough! These microphones go through a cheap Alesis iO2 interface to the computer. A 2 input device as the name suggests. It was the only interface I could get to work when I had a laptop running Vista, and since getting a Windows 7 desktop I've been sticking with the "if it ain't broke don't fix it" motto. Just 2 inputs and using dual microphones for guitar means I have to record guitar and vocals separately - that's a plus for me as I can get the balance better and can sing (relatively) better that way. Just need to rehearse enough so my imagining my singing when I record the guitar will match the real thing done afterwards. I use Magix Samplitude Studio software on the computer - relatively cheap (£50 or so a time if I don't get the bang up to date version ever). I'm now on my third version of the software - it's not perfect, but it'll do for my ability and it seems user friendly to me (but not to some I've noticed). I've stuck with it because this old dog don't fancy trying to learn how a different DAW works - I did try Reaper a couple of years back but got baffled and frustrated very quickly despite the praise it gets. The two microphone inputs are channelled from the interface to two tracks on the DAW recording software. They tracks are panned apart from each other a bit to broaden the sound more and I can amend the individual volume levels to adjust the two types of microphone sound to what seems to work best. Usually I find 50:50 is OK. I try and avoid using effects on the software too much. Adding a touch of reverb to counter my recordings being made in a heavily furnished room is one I do use, and sometimes compression. There may sometimes be a need to tweak the EQ in the mastering section once all the tracks are laid down. Hope that helps, or at least doesn't confuse! Mark
|
|