R the F
Luthier / Guitar Maker
Posts: 1,135 
My main instrument is: bandsaw
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Post by R the F on Jul 11, 2016 21:40:34 GMT
R the F Step away from it for a while, let things settle out with the current one and start yourself thinking about the next one. You know where your problems have occurred on this build so design around them. Perhaps go to a standard guitar body design, work through the design and see why that works and where it can be personalised without compromising the structure. ................. I think this puts you firmly in the Mrs RtheF camp, Francis. It's more or less what she said. It's very tempting to put it aside and move on to the next one and I have been considering building a standard bracing design but nah. I'll learn from this one and make sure the next one doesn't suffer from the same problems. No doubt it will suffer from other problems, though! |
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francis
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My main instrument is: Whatever I'm building...
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Post by francis on Jul 11, 2016 21:56:16 GMT
R the F Step away from it for a while, let things settle out with the current one and start yourself thinking about the next one. You know where your problems have occurred on this build so design around them. Perhaps go to a standard guitar body design, work through the design and see why that works and where it can be personalised without compromising the structure. ................. I think this puts you firmly in the Mrs RtheF camp, Francis. It's more or less what she said. It's very tempting to put it aside and move on to the next one and I have been considering building a standard bracing design but nah. I'll learn from this one and make sure the next one doesn't suffer from the same problems. No doubt it will suffer from other problems, though! I mean't put it to one side so it settles - see where the string tension takes it as you've only had strings on a day or so. While its settling look at other designs for the next one. Didn't mean abandon the current one, but if you start wotrking on it again before its finished its current movements you could be re-doing things again in a week or so.... |
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R the F
Luthier / Guitar Maker
Posts: 1,135
My main instrument is: bandsaw
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Post by R the F on Jul 12, 2016 6:23:48 GMT
I didn't mean abandon it for ever, Francis. Just let it settle and let the solutions settle and take shape in my mind without my having to think about it; I find that's usually a good way to deal with things. I think I'll put some Newtone Heritage (low tension) strings on it meanwhile since that saddle is just too high for its own good and will have to be lowered at some stage. Thanks for your help and interest.
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richm
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Post by richm on Jul 12, 2016 15:00:04 GMT
If the action is too low and the saddles are already high, could you take the frets out and plane the fingerboard, taking nothing off at the nut and taking 1 or 2mm at the soundhole end then popping the frets back in so you are sort of putting a negative neck angle in using the fingerboard. Repairers used to (maybe some still do) do the opposite of this to get around high actions on classical guitars and acoustics before we worked out neck resets (and bolts). As for the soundboard rotating, have you come across these? www.btnmusic.co.uk/product-category/guitar-accessories/jld-bridge-doctor/ You attach it to the back end of the bridge and the front end pushes up below the front of the bridge. I have put them in a few guitars, some work a treat, some don't do much but it might be worth a punt? Good luck!! |
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R the F
Luthier / Guitar Maker
Posts: 1,135
My main instrument is: bandsaw
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Post by R the F on Jul 12, 2016 16:07:26 GMT
If the action is too low and the saddles are already high, could you take the frets out and plane the fingerboard, taking nothing off at the nut and taking 1 or 2mm at the soundhole end then popping the frets back in so you are sort of putting a negative neck angle in using the fingerboard. Yes, Rich, that was one of my favoured options (above the dog illustration) and is probably the best route to take but, for the moment, I'm just letting it stew in a corner while I recover from my efforts! I had vaguely heard about the "bridge doctor" before but I'll certainly have a proper look at it now if it might save the day. Appreciate your help. I'm already planning what to do next... Rob |
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R the F
Luthier / Guitar Maker
Posts: 1,135
My main instrument is: bandsaw
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Post by R the F on Sept 12, 2016 21:08:06 GMT
It's had two months to settle down, though it's not been tuned right up to concert pitch during that time, and nothing much has changed. If you remember, the saddle is far too high at about 15mm and the 12th fret action - along with the action in various other parts of the fingerboard - is far too low. It had been decided that drastic action was needed so today it was taken. I was in the swing of fretting - see my other thread, "The next one" - and thought this might be a good time to try to save Beefy Bryn. I loosened the strings, slipped them out of the bridge and tied them in a knot out of the way. I then worked out that I probably needed to remove a whole 2mm from the hole-end of the fretboard and marked this with a marking gauge. I then proceeded to plane and sand the fretboard, tapering down to nothing at the nut. I'm going to end up with a rather skinny fretboard at the body-end but it probably won't be as noticeable as you might imagine. Anyway, I carefully removed all the frets without calamity - yes, I can barely believe it, either - and then set about my work. Here is a picture of where I've got to with my tapering:  The frets you can see are de-barbed and only put in place so that I could check the current angle with a straight-edge. Sorry to resurrect this old thread when you might have thought it had been put to bed but, if things go as planned, it might mean I have two new guitars by the end of the week! |
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leoroberts
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Posts: 26,145
My main instrument is: probably needing new strings
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Post by leoroberts on Sept 13, 2016 7:41:04 GMT
.... but, if things go as planned, it might mean I have two new guitars by the end of the week! Now, I'm not one to be pedantic (cough) but I *think* you mean two PLAYABLE guitars by the end of the week - as this was undoubtedly already a guitar.  |
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R the F
Luthier / Guitar Maker
Posts: 1,135
My main instrument is: bandsaw
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Post by R the F on Sept 13, 2016 7:43:00 GMT
Well held, sir; well held!
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R the F
Luthier / Guitar Maker
Posts: 1,135
My main instrument is: bandsaw
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Post by R the F on Sept 13, 2016 20:05:02 GMT
I think I must have taken a full 2.5mm off the soundhole end of the fingerboard by the time I had finished sanding and checking, sanding and checking. Certainly the last (19th) fret position was by now too shallow to risk slotting for a fret so I curved it off slightly at the end and now the guitar has only 18 frets. I'd better change the plans to make it look as if I meant it! On the other hand, all the other slots needed re-sawing to one extent or another and I had to be rather careful with a sharp saw being lured towards polished surfaces. Only one slight slot in the purfling but I don't think you'll notice it. I took the frets out pretty carefully yesterday and was rather pleased to see that they were tidy enough to re-install, though I had to be rather precise as they were more or less finished to final length. I managed to re-install them and the straight-edge and mini-rocking-straight-edges suggested they were more or less lined up in a straight line - but they never are of course. I have a straight beam with 320 grit paper on one side which gives the game away; the frets were first marked with a felt-tip - which, I believe is now known as a Sharpie:  The straight beam was then used to sand them to a precisely straight line:  The accumulation of sanding dust gives an idea of were the main culprits were. Next a hoover and a going over with my triangular file (with smooth corners) to re-shape the frets to an approximately fretty profile:  And, finally, down through a number of grades of paper ending with metal polish to make them look like frets again. Oh, and the ends had to be profiled, too; hence the damage to the tape along the edge:  I then cleaned it all up, lowered the saddles to somewhere near the 12.3mm-above-the-soundboard which I aim for, strung it up and, voilà, a playable guitar! You aren't as amazed as I am. Picture to follow soon. Sounds to follow a little later. |
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leoroberts
C.O.G.
Posts: 26,145
My main instrument is: probably needing new strings
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Post by leoroberts on Sept 13, 2016 20:31:30 GMT
Looking forward to the sounds - it's been a great build thread, R the F |
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R the F
Luthier / Guitar Maker
Posts: 1,135
My main instrument is: bandsaw
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Post by R the F on Sept 13, 2016 21:10:48 GMT
Bet you thought it would never end... I did.
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ocarolan
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Post by ocarolan on Sept 13, 2016 22:08:42 GMT
Bet you thought it would never end... I did. ...it's not ended until the Beefy Lady sings... Keith |
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R the F
Luthier / Guitar Maker
Posts: 1,135
My main instrument is: bandsaw
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Post by R the F on Nov 16, 2016 10:54:14 GMT
Sorry to drag this thread back from the depths of those pre-Halifax days but, having listened to ocarolan 's meticulous demonstrations of the sounds produced by francis 's guitars - here's an example https%3A//soundcloud.com/fwm891/fm-triple-0-13c-ms-bits- I wondered what my own guitars would sound like given the same treatment. Now I'm a rather more hesitant guitarist than Keith but managed to produce something like his first picked chord sequence played on my Beefy Bryn for comparison: https%3A//soundcloud.com/rthef/beefy-chordsEven I can hear the difference here and it suddenly struck me that, though I don't dislike the sound that Beefy Bryn produces, I suspect it is not the sound that most of you (guitartists) out there are after and that the Triple-0 is much more like what is wanted. With this in mind, I wonder what I can do to move towards the more desirable timbre bearing in mind the fact that Francis has himself not used a standard Martin bracing pattern on this guitar. If nobody can answer this question, I might switch from making guitars to making looms. (Is there a good loom forum out there somewhere?). At least they don't have to sound right. |
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ocarolan
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Post by ocarolan on Nov 16, 2016 13:28:31 GMT
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ocarolan
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Post by ocarolan on Nov 16, 2016 13:32:49 GMT
But please don't stop making guitars - keep experimenting - find "your" sound. You had some seriously impressive instruments at Halifax that I enjoyed playing, and fingerstyle geekery is very much a niche activity anyway! Having said that, I think the sound of your guitar as recorded above is lovely!  Now, if you could make a guitar that doubled as a loom then you could be onto something. (Less my 15% for the suggestion.....) Keith |
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Jo whoever he is.
