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Post by fatfingerjohn on Jun 29, 2016 8:02:31 GMT
Hi all,
This will be a naïve question for anyone with experience of amplification, of which I have very little.
My group of enthusiastic guitar players (Local U3a) are getting a few more bookings to play and sing to various audiences. There are anywhere between 6 and 15 of us depending whose available and as such we make a reasonable amount of noise, mainly strumming. We play a range of singalong songs on acoustic guitar and (dodgy) vocals. So far we have managed in small community rooms or church halls; 8 or 10 of us can make enough noise without amplification for an audience of say 50-75 people in a suitable room. But one or two might be coming up where we need to amplify and where the venue has no kit (and nor do we apart from my one 50w amp and a microphone).
Someone has said that all we should need is one or two relatively small amps placed at the front of the stage/playing area (we're not talking about the concert hall here) connected to say 2 microphones placed perhaps 5 yards in front of us on either side, pointing towards us i.e. nothing directly connected through leads except the mics to the amp (s). Is it as straightforward as this i.e. the mics will pick up our sound and amplify it reasonably; we are not after perfect reproduction or balance everywhere, just need to be heard at the back and in rooms/halls with possibly not too good acoustics. Hopefully the audience help by singing along.
Any simple advice welcome (I'm not capable of absorbing anything really technical on this subject!); what type of mic? Amp? no of inputs etc.
Thanks
John |
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Post by stringdriventhing on Jun 29, 2016 14:50:36 GMT
I don't really have any experience of this kind of setup, but I'd imagine you'd need pretty specialist/good-quality/expensive mics to be able to pick up much from that range.. 5 yards is quite a distance. It might also sound a bit muddy coming through a single amp.
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Post by ocarolan on Jun 29, 2016 15:13:45 GMT
I've done something similar with a school choir and got away with it.
A couple of microphones will do, but you need them either side and above the players, pointing down, maybe just a foot or three from the front row of them. You could just about manage with bog standard dynamic mikes, but small diameter condensers designed for slightly more distant pickup would be better. Cardioid or hypercardiod to lessen pickup from audience.
Plug into mike XLR inputs on two amps, one each side, raised at least to chair height and several feet away from the mikes towards the audience.
Keep the audience as far back as is possible.
It can work to give the sound a bit of a lift, but it won't be Glastonbury.
You can place the players who know what they're doing nearer the mikes, and keep those who are shi less able further away!
You'll need to experiment with this kind of setup - don't just turn up anywhwere and expect all to be well.
Good luck - sounds fun!
Keith
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Post by fatfingerjohn on Jun 29, 2016 16:31:25 GMT
I've done something similar with a school choir and got away with it. A couple of microphones will do, but you need them either side and above the players, pointing down, maybe just a foot or three from the front row of them. You could just about manage with bog standard dynamic mikes, but small diameter condensers designed for slightly more distant pickup would be better. Cardioid or hypercardiod to lessen pickup from audience. Plug into mike XLR inputs on two amps, one each side, raised at least to chair height and several feet away from the mikes towards the audience. Keep the audience as far back as is possible. It can work to give the sound a bit of a lift, but it won't be Glastonbury. You can place the players who know what they're doing nearer the mikes, and keep those who are shi less able further away! You'll need to experiment with this kind of setup - don't just turn up anywhwere and expect all to be well. Good luck - sounds fun! Keith Thanks Keith, this is encouraging. I'll have to check what kit I can beg/steal/borrow and then find somewhere to practice setting up.
regards
John
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Post by andyhowell on Jul 1, 2016 6:50:59 GMT
I was going to suggest something similar to Keith — think of amplifying a choir or an orchestra — mics raised above the ensemble and pointing down would seem to be right. You are looking to boost ambient sound rather than directly amplify individuals. I regularly play at an evening where the venue just uses some ambience boost like this, using two mics and a PA. In many ways I prefer it to the full mixed sound — but this is a pace where you don't need a blast of sound. As for mics you won't have to look at very expensive stuff.
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Post by fatfingerjohn on Jul 1, 2016 7:12:55 GMT
Thanks Andy, again very helpful and encouraging. Regarding mikes, I have 2, different sorts.
One is a Shure PG48 Cardiod Dynamic mic. The other is a Samson C01 Condenser. Can I use both, one at each side or will the fact they work in different ways mean that one side of the group will sound different (louder/softer, clearer/muddier) than the other. If one workd better than the other, which should I get/find another of. (I think Keith said the condenser might be better).
Thanks again for your help.
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Post by ocarolan on Jul 1, 2016 8:51:01 GMT
You probably would get away with using both, though much would depend on what you plug them into. (Which is...?)
The Samson CO1 is certainly the more suited of the two you have to this overhead/distant application - I think they advertise them as such too. At around £50 maybe it wouldn't break the bank to obtain another...?
Keith
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Post by fatfingerjohn on Jul 1, 2016 10:11:41 GMT
You probably would get away with using both, though much would depend on what you plug them into. (Which is...?) The Samson CO1 is certainly the more suited of the two you have to this overhead/distant application - I think they advertise them as such too. At around £50 maybe it wouldn't break the bank to obtain another...? Keith Hi,
My amp (which I've rarely used in anger) is a Marshall AS50D (Designed for acoustic guitar soloist). It has 2 channel input; 1st is a standard jack input and second has a phantom mic input which I would need for the Samson condenser or a standard input jack (for the directional mic). I hope to be able to borrow another amp if needed, not sure what.
The next performance we have is a scary one in front of about 300 people as an after dinner conference and I am hoping the venue has a full sound system that will avoid all of this. It's the next booking later in the year which we will have to get set up for, about 100 people in a medium sized room with poor acoustics; trying to keep the cost down if I can bearing in mind we are miles from being professional and don't get a fee (other than sometimes a charity donation, which so far we've given to a local disabled school Music Therapy unit).
John
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Post by ocarolan on Jul 1, 2016 11:25:32 GMT
It would be worth checking out the 300 people venue as to what they can actually provide!
AFAIK, your amp has a guitar channel which will not be of use to you for microphones, and only one microphone channel with two inputs which are alternatives, and wouldn't work well with two things plugged in - one is for an XLR cabled mike (low impedance) and is the one to use, and the other for a 1/4" jack cabled mike (high impedance)which is less useful.
Can you beg, steal or borrow another amp with an XLR mike channel?
At a pinch you might just about get away with your Samson and Marshall alone - try it at one of your practises and see how you get on!
Keith
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Post by fatfingerjohn on Jul 1, 2016 11:36:05 GMT
Thanks Keith, all very helpful. I will certainly be talking to the venue sound people for the 'big one' and will experiment elsewhere for smaller venues; I hate working on the 'it'll be alright on the night' basis unless there's no alternative, particularly with something where I have had little experience.
John
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Jo whoever he is.
