R the F
Luthier / Guitar Maker
Posts: 1,135 
My main instrument is: bandsaw
|
walnut
Nov 9, 2016 19:48:56 GMT
Post by R the F on Nov 9, 2016 19:48:56 GMT
Suppose a person were to buy a slab of walnut big enough to make guitar backs and sides and 40mm thick but green, how thick would the person want to slice it in order to stack it for drying and how would he or she go about slicing it up accurately? Oh, here is just such a piece! I thought that perhaps a colins or a davewhite or a francis or someone like that might know how to do something like this. |
|
davewhite
Luthier / Guitar Maker
Luthier
Aemulor et ambitiosior
Posts: 3,548
|
walnut
Nov 9, 2016 22:20:01 GMT
Post by davewhite on Nov 9, 2016 22:20:01 GMT
Rob,
Looks to be mostly flatsawn timber there - the logs weren't cut for tonewood. I'm no expert on dealing with green wood like that but it needs parafin wax or something like that on the exposed ends and you need to monitor the moisture loss (weighing over time). I would not cut too thin at this stage if it were me. May be worth giving someone like Bob Smith at Timberline of David Dyke a call for advice.
|
|
francis
C.O.G. 
Posts: 2,483
My main instrument is: Whatever I'm building...
|
walnut
Nov 9, 2016 22:41:56 GMT
Post by francis on Nov 9, 2016 22:41:56 GMT
Rob, Looks to be mostly flatsawn timber there - the logs weren't cut for tonewood. I'm no expert on dealing with green wood like that but it needs parafin wax or something like that on the exposed ends and you need to monitor the moisture loss (weighing over time). I would not cut too thin at this stage if it were me. May be worth giving someone like Bob Smith at Timberline of David Dyke a call for advice. Ditto Dave on that. My bandsaw is supposed to cut to 10" depth but don't have blades to cope with that depth or wet wood. Sticker and air dry |
|
leoroberts
C.O.G.
Posts: 26,145
My main instrument is: probably needing new strings
|
walnut
Nov 9, 2016 23:10:17 GMT
Post by leoroberts on Nov 9, 2016 23:10:17 GMT
By 'eck it looks pretty, mind!
|
|
R the F
Luthier / Guitar Maker
Posts: 1,135
My main instrument is: bandsaw
|
walnut
Nov 10, 2016 10:24:17 GMT
Post by R the F on Nov 10, 2016 10:24:17 GMT
It does, doesn't it, leoroberts? Would you like me to get you a piece? Thanks for your advice davewhite and francis. I'm tempted to go along and have a look at it anyway; some of the wider boards are virtually quarter-sawn and luthieristic wisdom seems to suggest that looks are more important than anything else when it comes to guitar backs. Flatsawn/Slab-cut is going to be less stable as it dries out but, if it survives the process, it won't be any less stiff. I guess I'll just have to find something heavy to put on it while it dries out. Any ideas anyone?! |
|
davewhite
Luthier / Guitar Maker
Luthier
Aemulor et ambitiosior
Posts: 3,548
|
walnut
Nov 10, 2016 11:11:00 GMT
Post by davewhite on Nov 10, 2016 11:11:00 GMT
Rob, Flatsawn wood has its uses in luthiery - you can book-match cut and flip pieces to make multi-piece quatersawn necks. You could also make some great banjos out of the wood  |
|
davewhite
Luthier / Guitar Maker
Luthier
Aemulor et ambitiosior
Posts: 3,548
|
Post by davewhite on Nov 10, 2016 11:12:47 GMT
and luthieristic wisdom seems to suggest that looks are more important than anything else when it comes to guitar backs. I would suggest that is "customer bling expectation" and definitely not "luthieristic wisdom"  |
|
R the F
Luthier / Guitar Maker
Posts: 1,135
My main instrument is: bandsaw
|
walnut
Nov 10, 2016 11:29:23 GMT
Post by R the F on Nov 10, 2016 11:29:23 GMT
I just mean that quarter-sawn wood isn't any stiffer or stronger; just that it's easier to manage in that it shrinks without warping so much and is easier to thin. (God! I hope I'm not being iconoclastic again! Somogyi and Benedetto agree with me!)
|
|
davewhite
Luthier / Guitar Maker
Luthier
Aemulor et ambitiosior
Posts: 3,548
|
walnut
Nov 10, 2016 11:50:27 GMT
Post by davewhite on Nov 10, 2016 11:50:27 GMT
650mm is on the short side for guitar sides and 780mm is tight but may work with a big enough end graft and a patch under the neck heel.
|
|
R the F
Luthier / Guitar Maker
Posts: 1,135
My main instrument is: bandsaw
|
walnut
Nov 10, 2016 12:32:38 GMT
Post by R the F on Nov 10, 2016 12:32:38 GMT
Good point. Yes, I've come up short (so to speak) before and had to sort it out. Thanks again for your interest. I'm beginning to wonder if I have the patience to wait for it to dry out; after all, I may be into a minimalist strictly-no-bling frame of mind by the time it's ready for use. (Could always sell it to Leo, though!)
|
|
colins
Luthier / Guitar Maker
Posts: 2,397
|
walnut
Nov 10, 2016 13:00:28 GMT
Post by colins on Nov 10, 2016 13:00:28 GMT
I had the same thought as Dave, 780mm is a bit short for anything other than parlour and OO size guitars and gives no wiggle room. I'm not a great fan of flat sawn wood for B&S, especially for sides. I know a number of experienced tonewood cutters that would saw it to B&S sets straight away, then end seal and sticker. Drying time would be faster with less chance of the wood cracking. 2HP and a 3-tooth 3/4" blade taken slowly should cut it OK, as you know it's clearing the waste that is important in a smooth cut. I always use M42 tooth blades for this sort of thing.
Colin
|
|
davewhite
Luthier / Guitar Maker
Luthier
Aemulor et ambitiosior
Posts: 3,548
|
walnut
Nov 10, 2016 13:11:20 GMT
Post by davewhite on Nov 10, 2016 13:11:20 GMT
Rob,
If the wood is close to you I'd go and take a look - it's the best way to judge potential. English Walnut is not that easy to get hold of and good tonewood is getting harder and harder to come by. If it's good stuff and you get tired of waiting there will always be the option to sell it on or sell it to furniture makers/wood turners. I doubt you'll make a loss.
|
|
R the F
Luthier / Guitar Maker
Posts: 1,135
My main instrument is: bandsaw
|
walnut
Nov 10, 2016 15:24:10 GMT
Post by R the F on Nov 10, 2016 15:24:10 GMT
More good advice, Dave, and I'm very tempted to go. colins - that's about as precise and to the point as I could wish for and I've been checking Axminster already. The shape I'm making at the moment - the only shape I'm making to be honest - is 764mm in the side department, which is why I thought it might just suit. And you're not teaching your grandmother to suck eggs; the only "training" I've ever had in woodwork was half a year of double woodwork once a week (in 1964). I made a toilet-roll holder. I regret to say I haven't still got it. I did come top of the class, though! (Hope the cruise was a success.) |
|
colins
Luthier / Guitar Maker
Posts: 2,397
|
Post by colins on Nov 10, 2016 15:51:22 GMT
Rob, this is where I get my blades. www.tuffsaws.co.uk/index.php?route=product/category&path=3_6The 3/4" 3 tooth is here: www.tuffsaws.co.uk/index.php?route=product/category&path=4_18_46I only use M42 bi-metal blades on my saw, the smaller finer tooth sizes are superb for all of my usual cutting work. A 1/2" 6-10 vari-tooth design sits in my saw most of the time and is ideal for the usual straight cuts, a 3/8" is used for profile cuts on necks etc. and a 1/4" 10-14 tooth for cutting thin woods like tops to shape. The blades give much better cuts than carbon steel blades and last considerably longer, so they actually work out very much cheaper in the long run. They also have the advantage that the vari-tooth design runs quieter and more stable through the cut and gives a much smoother finish than a single pitch tooth design does. For the occasional re-sawer the 3/4" 3 point works just fine, clearing the waste from the deeper section wood well if the job isn't rushed. Colin |
|
Jo whoever he is.
