francis
C.O.G. 
Posts: 2,483 
My main instrument is: Whatever I'm building...
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Post by francis on Nov 20, 2016 22:21:31 GMT
Quoted from the ANZLF site:
It is now official, all Dalbergia species, including Indian Rosewood will be listed on CITES Appendix II on 1/1/2017. Apparently, unlike Mahogany, the listing will include finished items, but personal musical instruments will be exempt. So in future it is going to be difficult to get any form of Rosewood, and international sales will require CITES documentation, which just about rules it out for most people.
For the UK it means restrictions from Jan 2nd 2017.
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R the F
Luthier / Guitar Maker
Posts: 1,135
My main instrument is: bandsaw
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Post by R the F on Nov 21, 2016 8:36:04 GMT
"Don't it always seem to go
That you don't know what you've got
Till it's gone"
presumably played on a Martin with Dalbergia back and sides!
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Post by earthbalm on Nov 21, 2016 8:42:10 GMT
Quoted from the ANZLF site: It is now official, all Dalbergia species, including Indian Rosewood will be listed on CITES Appendix II on 1/1/2017. Apparently, unlike Mahogany, the listing will include finished items, but personal musical instruments will be exempt. So in future it is going to be difficult to get any form of Rosewood, and international sales will require CITES documentation, which just about rules it out for most people. For the UK it means restrictions from Jan 2nd 2017. Interesting. Thanks for the 'heads up' though I'm unlikely to be travelling across borders with a guitar. Very nice arch top progress btw. |
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Phil Taylor
C.O.G.
Posts: 4,516
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Post by Phil Taylor on Nov 21, 2016 9:51:47 GMT
Is maple the new rosewood? I get the impression that Taylor seem to think so if suitably 'voiced'.
Phil
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davewhite
Luthier / Guitar Maker
Luthier
Aemulor et ambitiosior
Posts: 3,548
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Post by davewhite on Nov 21, 2016 10:34:50 GMT
Is maple the new rosewood? I get the impression that Taylor seem to think so if suitably 'voiced'. Phil Shouldn't that read "suitably marketed"  |
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Post by nkforster on Nov 21, 2016 19:51:32 GMT
Yep, it's a pain in the bum. In Germany at least I can register my stock of rosewood and bubinga with the local CITES office. Every state has one. Then, what I've got is "legal" as long as I get it all done before 2 Jan 2017. I rang Kew Gardens who deal with these things in the UK and they passed me on to a CITES officer who told me that in the UK you can't register anything as there is no office to register with (great system.) instead you have to apply for a permit for instrument that contains rosewood or bubinga you wish to export outside the EU. Which will mean every guitar you want to export outside the UK in a couple of years time. Each permit costs £59 and takes several weeks to be given. It can only be used once and is not transferrable. It's not clear to me wether your customer also needs to buy an import licence at their end. To speak to the UK CITES people, click HERE. and they will direct you to the forms which are HERE. It's a pain for sure, but there isn't anything we can do about it. Other than comply, change to other timbers or find a new job. n |
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Post by RosieTGC on Nov 22, 2016 13:53:43 GMT
Yep, it's a pain in the bum. In Germany at least I can register my stock of rosewood and bubinga with the local CITES office. Every state has one. Then, what I've got is "legal" as long as I get it all done before 2 Jan 2017. I rang Kew Gardens who deal with these things in the UK and they passed me on to a CITES officer who told me that in the UK you can't register anything as there is no office to register with (great system.) instead you have to apply for a permit for instrument that contains rosewood or bubinga you wish to export outside the EU. Which will mean every guitar you want to export outside the UK in a couple of years time. Each permit costs £59 and takes several weeks to be given. It can only be used once and is not transferrable. It's not clear to me wether your customer also needs to buy an import licence at their end. To speak to the UK CITES people, click HERE. and they will direct you to the forms which are HERE. It's a pain for sure, but there isn't anything we can do about it. Other than comply, change to other timbers or find a new job. n Thanks for sharing this information Nigel that is really good to know. I've just taken a look at the CITIES website and came across the mentioning of import licences so thought I'd share this here too - just copied and pasted: International trade in specimens of Appendix-II species may be authorized by the granting of an export permit or re-export certificate. No import permit is necessary for these species under CITES (although a permit is needed in some countries that have taken stricter measures than CITES requires). Permits or certificates should only be granted if the relevant authorities are satisfied that certain conditions are met, above all that trade will not be detrimental to the survival of the species in the wild. (See Article IV of the Convention) www.cites.org/eng/app/index.php |
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Post by mel on Dec 30, 2016 12:49:27 GMT
Some CITES info from Madinter here linkMel. |
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brianr2
C.O.G.
Posts: 3,189
My main instrument is: Fylde Goodfellow
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Post by brianr2 on Dec 30, 2016 15:37:06 GMT
Some CITES info from Madinter here linkMel. Para (b) on page 8 looks especially helpful with creamburmese's question in the Thread here. "b) Non-commercial exports of a maximum total weight of 10 kg per shipment; (Excluded) This exception allows a person to travel to any country in the world with a finished product containing less than 10 kg of a Rosewood (Dalbergia) or a Bubinga (Guibourtia demeusei, Guibourtia pellegriniana or Guibourtia tessmannii) without a CITES permit, as long as there is no commercial transaction of the product. An example: a musician will be able to travel to any country with his Indian Rosewood guitar without needing a CITES permit, as long as he does not sell the guitar during the trip. It is not a problem if the musician earns money by playing his guitar abroad, as that would not constitute a commercial transaction of the instrument." I should appreciate the views of our luthier experts on whether this is as straightforward as it seems and whether some documentary proof of ownership might be needed? Brian |
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Post by dreadnought28 on Dec 31, 2016 1:34:39 GMT
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Post by creamburmese on Jan 7, 2017 12:39:58 GMT
Regarding traveling with a personal Indian rosewood guitar- I wasnt able to find out if the UK has endorsed the "personal exemption" clause for CITES appendix 2 that allows you to bring up to 10kg (not specified if whole guitar or just rosewood part) of a finished item without official guitar passport. FYI I understand that the US and Canada have signed on to the exemption. Nevertheless I threw caution to the winds and brought the guitar through Heathrow this week (though I did have a letter from the luthier indicating what it was made of and when it was built). It was a non issue. There was no customs check- in fact there were no customs officials at all .....  |
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R the F
Luthier / Guitar Maker
Posts: 1,135
My main instrument is: bandsaw
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Post by R the F on Jan 7, 2017 15:07:17 GMT
It was a non issue. There was no customs check- in fact there were no customs officials at all ..... No doubt they'll have been observing your body language from a safe and respectful distance - or maybe they were down the pub. |
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Post by andyhowell on Jan 8, 2017 10:50:43 GMT
Regarding traveling with a personal Indian rosewood guitar- I wasnt able to find out if the UK has endorsed the "personal exemption" clause for CITES appendix 2 that allows you to bring up to 10kg (not specified if whole guitar or just rosewood part) of a finished item without official guitar passport. FYI I understand that the US and Canada have signed on to the exemption. Nevertheless I threw caution to the winds and brought the guitar through Heathrow this week (though I did have a letter from the luthier indicating what it was made of and when it was built). It was a non issue. There was no customs check- in fact there were no customs officials at all ..... How did you carry the guitar? Cabin or hold? |
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Post by creamburmese on Jan 8, 2017 20:26:20 GMT
I have brought guitars to the UK 3 times, always in the passenger cabin. Twice with British Airways they preboarded me because of the guitar and put it up front somewhere. In fact the half dozen times I've traveled in the US with a variety of airlines I've never had to gate check it.
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Jo whoever he is.
