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Post by MartinS on Dec 8, 2016 11:21:09 GMT
Like a simpleton, I had thought that with Audacity, all you did was:
1.record
2. tweak volumes (in a stereo recording)
3. do a bit of fade in/fade out processing
4. maybe a bit of high pass to get rid of the rumble
5. maybe a bit of editing if there was things I thought I could clean up
6. add a bit of reverb directly to the stereo file
7. maybe a bit of hf eq, to brighten things up as appropriate
8. finally check gains and tweak again if required
9. sit back, listen to the file and think "I need to practice guitar more"
My questions are:
A) It would be good to get other people's takes on their workflows, and see what I'm doing wrong or missing out. What's the optimum procedure so that I get everything in the right order?
B) Turns out that my use of reverb was totally wrong, and I should have created a new copy of the file, added reverb to that, then blended the dry and wet files to get an optimum sound. Now, the normal audacity reverb plugin is criticised as being a bit harsh, so I have downloaded SIR1, which is a free impulse response reverb based plugin, and also downloaded some example impulse response WAV's from the web (they are legion). From a brief foray into this world last night I did think that going down this path will give better results. Question is, does anyone have a favourite impulse response? Anyone got an opinion on response times that work well with fingerstyle?
Generally, I have probably been guilty of adding too much reverb, so I'm going to try and be a bit more sparing in future.
m.
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Post by scripsit on Dec 8, 2016 12:31:52 GMT
I don't think there is one perfect workflow, because so much depends on the room, the tracking, the performance, even before you get to fiddling with the sound files.
I'm still experimenting but ... in my experience, you leave volume tweaking until the end, and push up your computer speaker volume if you're having trouble hearing the finer points. Always save a new file as soon as you do any treatment at all (especially when using a program like Audacity as DAW which doesn't allow for easy undoing).
1. Get volume right for monitors, using speaker controls, without adjusting actual track volume. 2. Do EQ, which usually means rolling off most of the stuff under 50 Hz in a solo acoustic track because your room is crap. 3. Apply appropriate reverb. In most DAWs this means routing the unchanged recorded track to another track, applying reverb of your choice to the second track, then mixing the two tracks together with the reverb one turned down. In Audacity, I think you have to put the reverb plugin directly on your track, in which case turn down the mix of reverb and dry until you can just hear it and then turn it down a bit more (about 15% is usually a good starting point). 4. Bring the volume of the track up, making sure you leave about 1.0 db at least headroom in the loudest bit so it won't clip when you upload it as mp3.
You can do a lot more at the EQ stage to dial in the guitar sound you like. If you have automation (which I don't think Audacity has) you can muck about with varying amounts of reverb at different points of the track, or mix in an additional, different reverb.
If you're really into polishing the track after all of this you might start to experiment with compression and limiting, although you have to be careful not to end up with the slammed Scandinavian sound.
Performance is the biggy. If you're not relaxed and comfortable with the music it won't work no matter what you do to it.
Kym
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Post by MartinS on Dec 9, 2016 8:45:25 GMT
Kym, thanks for the input.
Performance is the biggy, as you say, then a nice sounding guitar, I think. I think I'm getting closer to what I want from the recording process though.
Comments like yours are really helpful, maybe one day I'll upgrade to more modern software, but since I'm only running with an old laptop it might not be soon!
m.
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Post by andyhowell on Dec 10, 2016 10:47:59 GMT
Have I answered this somewhere else?
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Post by andyhowell on Dec 10, 2016 10:50:19 GMT
Just in case!
Here's my workflow — I tend to agree about Audacity (see below).
For Guitar:
I record using stereo microphones into a channel in my DAW set to stereo. the gain levels are levelled with the gain inputs on my interface.
EQ — high pass filter and little tweaking, usually a slight cut in the lower mids and, perhaps, a cut in higher mids and boost in highs depending on the piece recorded.
Compression — a threshold to reduce by 5 to 8 db. Ratio, attack and release will be determined by the piece/track. Compression's an important tool but a bit complicated. Graham's Recording Revolution has a great series of free tutorials on compression. Normally I use a modest ratio but find with fast pieces a sometimes benefit from a higher ratio.
Parallel Reverb — the track is sent to an AUX channel where reverb can be applied using faders to dial in the correct amount. this is 'parallel reverb' _ see Doug young's website. there is also parallel compression which works in a similar way but I never use this on acoustic guitar. Depending on the piece I don't always use this but always have it set up on a template.
For Vocal:
Digital Delay — a tiny amount (so you can't here it almost) will fatten up the vocal before we do anything else.
EQ — high pass is usually done at my mic (best done this way I think) and also a PAD if necessary. Subtle tweaking of the view gives more presence — what the mids again.
Compression — again aiming for 5-8 db reduction. Threshold is usually quite modest and attack and release medium as well.
Reverb — sent to another AUX channel for parallel reverb mixing.
Final Mix
Even a simple guitar and vocal track can (but not always) benefit from something additional — subtle fine tuning though.
EQ — fine tuning (usually using a visual graph eq mostly).
Compression — on vocal/guitar mixes can be useful; we are looking for a more modest threshold here — about 3 db.
Reverb _ perhaps something very subtle. The Eventide stereo Room plugin is very interesting here. If your reverb has a pre delay have a play with this.
I have talked about the db amounts in compression. For everything else rely on your ears. Plugin presets are interesting as you can see, for example with ole vocals, where a good starting point might be. However, each track or project will require different settings, some subtle and some more significant.
Sweepable eq bands are very useful here allowing you to make subtle changes — rely on what you hear rather than what you see!
DAW
I tend to agree about Audacity. Using plugins in real time is a must. If you want do a fair amount of recording it will be worth investing in a better DAW. This doesn't have to be a massive expense. If you use Macs Logic is amazing value, comes with a great range of plugins and is difficult to beat on this system.
Most Common Problem
The most common problem I see with people exploring recording for the first time (and indeed still on my stuff) is a tendency to use too much gain at the input stage. Clipping is not nice and usually manifests itself as a 'muddy' sound, especially with vocals. Go easy. When setting recording levels you want 'Pre Fader' metering.
Focusrite Users
Finally, those who have registered their interfaces with Focusrite are currently able to access a series of free plugins from third parties — some of these are very useful. Other manufacturers might do something similar and worth checking.
Try not to mix right after recording. Give yourself some space.
Then after workington the mix leave it a day. Come back with fresh ears and then make some final adjustments.
At this point leave it. the temptation to twiddle knobs forever is too great.
Come back after a weeks or so and have another look. The great thing about publishing online (Soundcloud an such) is you can replace your file.
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Post by ocarolan on Dec 10, 2016 11:23:24 GMT
My head hurts...
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Post by MartinS on Dec 10, 2016 12:32:20 GMT
You have,thanks Andy, but it's obviously worth repeating! Sorry Keith, heavy night last night? I'm looking into Reaper, and maybe even Cubase again. My big problem with Cubase was seeing what was going on on a laptop screen, Audacity is just so simple in comparison (although so much more basic). m.
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Post by andyhowell on Dec 11, 2016 15:31:00 GMT
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Post by Phil Taylor on Dec 11, 2016 17:32:30 GMT
You have,thanks Andy, but it's obviously worth repeating! Sorry Keith, heavy night last night? I'm looking into Reaper, and maybe even Cubase again. My big problem with Cubase was seeing what was going on on a laptop screen, Audacity is just so simple in comparison (although so much more basic). m. I use Reaper for recording the basic track and editing (not videos) and it seems to be quite a useful programme but it has taken me months to gradually get used to it. With regards to EQ/reverb etc. I have still to really get into it. Phil
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Post by MartinS on Dec 11, 2016 17:56:40 GMT
Andy,
Just thinking that if I'm going to think about getting Reaper, I'd really be as well getting Cubase, so that I can swap files with the friend that has that.
Going to meet him this week and discuss how to make it work better on a laptop screen.
I just stuck up a quick 'bare bones' recording of Parting Glass/Banish Misfortune on my Soundcloud. I used the Rode mics in spaced pair, but this time didn't use any reverb (and no eq) just to see. And actually I think it works pretty well. Maybe it could do with a touch of reverb, just hard to know...
I'll need to go and listen to someone like Tony McManus (aiming high, eh?) to get a feel for how much he would put on.
m.
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Post by andyhowell on Dec 12, 2016 10:46:21 GMT
Martin,
I often use no reverb at all and when I do keep it very subtle. I'm more likely to use it modestly on vocals.
The key with the guitar is to have a decent sounding room, not too echo ridden. If the room is not too bad and themes are properly located you will only have to tweak EQ — if at all.
There is a superb video blog which I think I've mentioned before. Late on I'll post the link.
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