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Post by vikingblues on May 14, 2017 20:00:03 GMT
I don't know if this will help anyone's judgement as to the iRig merits but I was asked to do it by someone I know. So FWIW here it is. I've extracted the files off the Zoom H4n for the "Moonshone" improv and split out the iRig and Vintage GG guitar On Board sounds from their stereo track. Note - no editing of EQ and no reverb or fx added. Here's five extracts heard three ways. First just the Zoom H4n built in mics, then just the Irig on Warm Uncalibrated setting, then just the GG guitar with the on board Fishman Blend system with about 45% of the internal microphone. The iRig stacks up pretty well and in this instance I find it mostly preferable to the Zooms own mics which are a bit too cold and bright by comparison. I notice that playing back each part on it's own like this highlights my mistakes and fumbles more then the combined tracks did!  Wav file on Box.com (better quality) : "Moonshine" Extracts Comparing Sounds : wavMP3 file on Box.com (smaller file) : "Moonshine" Extracts comparing sounds : mp3Time guide for the extracts:- 0:00 Zoom H4n 0:32 iRig Warm 1:04 On Board Vintage GG Blend 45% Mic 1:38 Zoom H4n 1:49 iRig Warm 2:00 On Board Vintage GG Blend 45% Mic 2:13 Zoom H4n 2:24 iRig Warm 2.35 On Board Vintage GG Blend 45% Mic 2:48 Zoom H4n 3:03 iRig Warm 3:18 On Board Vintage GG Blend 45% Mic 3:33 Zoom H4n 3:50 iRig Warm 4:07 On Board Vintage GG Blend 45% Mic 4:24 Zoom H4n 4:46 iRig Warm 5:07 On Board Vintage GG Blend 45% Mic Mark |
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Post by vikingblues on May 19, 2017 7:46:35 GMT
Brief update in case anyone interested - not much time to play guitar recently let alone try out the iRig. Test of the iRig on the Guild Jumbo Junior. Zoom H4n internal microphones, v Warm Uncalibrated iRig v Jumbos own OnBoard Piezo. You will see why I'll be avoiding the Piezo route.  Wav file on Box.com  iRig Compared Guild Jumbo Jr wavmp3 file on Box.com iRig Compared Guild Jumbo Jr mp30:00 Zoom H4n 0:47 iRig Warm 1:35 On Board Guild Jumbo Junior Piezo 2:26 Zoom H4n 3:19 iRig Warm 4:12 On Board Guild Jumbo Junior Piezo If this is how good the iRig can be Uncalibrated I'm looking forward to seeing if Calibration makes it even better. If I get the time! Mark |
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Post by vikingblues on May 23, 2017 18:58:12 GMT
No recordings - I think I've done too many! But a few thoughts and if anyone has points about what I might be doing wrong please chip in.
1. Does anyone else that's tried the calibration process find that the sound becomes more top end and lower in volume after calibration is done? It seems to be consistently what I am getting whichever guitar it is. A factory reset definitely then takes off that extra top and boosts the volume. At factory setting the volume is as low as I really want it to be given where I am needing to set recording levels.
2. The idea with calibration of playing six note clusters in your playing style moving up each fret of the fretboard is maybe better geared towards a task that is using a pick - the lack of six fingers on the right hand means some inconsistency in the way the individual notes in 6 string clusters sound. Whatever is happening the technique I am attempting is consistently giving me the extra top end I've mentioned above, and as a result the Calibrated sound is not so good for me. Maybe I should try to calibrate it using a pick to strum the note clusters?
3. When playing into an amp it seems that the iRig Acoustic Stage is maybe more sensitive to electrics interference than a lead form the guitars own pickup system. I plugged the acoustic amp into a different socket / location than usual last night. There were very noticeable bursts of crackling / whooshing noises. The same cable into the same amp in the same location but from the guitars own pickup .... no problems. Same thing was observed with a different cable. Tried the usual socket / location this morning - no issues either way. I then went back to last nights location - still a bit of noise when the iRig was plugged in but nothing like the same extreme level and still no noise with the cable from the guitar output.
Mark
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Post by PistolPete on May 24, 2017 8:32:01 GMT
3. When playing into an amp it seems that the iRig Acoustic Stage is maybe more sensitive to electrics interference than a lead form the guitars own pickup system. I plugged the acoustic amp into a different socket / location than usual last night. There were very noticeable bursts of crackling / whooshing noises. The same cable into the same amp in the same location but from the guitars own pickup .... no problems. Same thing was observed with a different cable. Tried the usual socket / location this morning - no issues either way. I then went back to last nights location - still a bit of noise when the iRig was plugged in but nothing like the same extreme level and still no noise with the cable from the guitar output. Mark Is your phone in your pocket? - I had a lot of noise on mine at a gig the other day from the second I put it down & eventually clocked it was down to my mobile sitting on the floor beside my set list. |
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Post by andyhowell on May 25, 2017 7:01:10 GMT
Interesting. If you record an acoustic with a decent mic (in many situations) you will classically role off the base and often boost the treble. I wonder if they are doing something similar to deal with the proximity bass?
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Post by bobcarter on May 25, 2017 7:14:28 GMT
1. Yes, the calibration does take off a lot of the bottom end and boost the top for me too and I think the reduction in volume is from the change in EQ. The top can get a bit shrill, but the uncalibrated sound was far too boomy for me so losing some bottom end was better. I do need to tame the extra top with some EQ after calibration, though, or use the warm setting.
2. I'm still experimenting with the best way to calibrate. I've tried just a playing a tune to it rather than the six note clusters as that's more representative. What you play to it during calibration does seem to make a difference, which is interesting!
3. Yes, I think the lead is maybe not as well shielded as it could be. I've noticed the occasional pop which I think is interference rather than any problem with the actual lead, though it hasn't been a big issue so far.
Overall still very pleased with it, though slightly disappointed to find the soundboard on one of my guitars was too thick for it to fit.
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Post by andyhowell on May 25, 2017 8:13:19 GMT
There are always going to be a big set of compromises for such a keenly priced piece of kit! Just look at the cost of the DPA 4099!
I think with any system like this you are going to need some extra eq.
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Post by vikingblues on May 25, 2017 12:14:27 GMT
Ahh - I'm a luddite, me!  No fancy mobile phone - it is old style and gets switched off if I'm home - it's a plus that it means I'm not at it's beck and call all day! But the noise is maybe to do with a powered TV aerial close by and a shared electric socket ... and an old house with too few electric sockets and possibly less than perfect wiring.
Interesting. If you record an acoustic with a decent mic (in many situations) you will classically role off the base and often boost the treble. I wonder if they are doing something similar to deal with the proximity bass? The proximity bass was something I wondered about when I first saw the system and waited till I'd heard enough samples to feel it maybe wasn't an issue. That proximity bass issue is one of the main reasons I'm a big fan of Omni capsule mics as they are much less inclined to having that problem. But yes, they must be doing something on EQ to deal with this. MY acoustic guitar choices tend to be ones that don't have a lot of bass, so I think their solution is maybe tending to give me too much top end. 1. Yes, the calibration does take off a lot of the bottom end and boost the top for me too and I think the reduction in volume is from the change in EQ. The top can get a bit shrill, but the uncalibrated sound was far too boomy for me so losing some bottom end was better. I do need to tame the extra top with some EQ after calibration, though, or use the warm setting. 2. I'm still experimenting with the best way to calibrate. I've tried just a playing a tune to it rather than the six note clusters as that's more representative. What you play to it during calibration does seem to make a difference, which is interesting! 3. Yes, I think the lead is maybe not as well shielded as it could be. I've noticed the occasional pop which I think is interference rather than any problem with the actual lead, though it hasn't been a big issue so far. Overall still very pleased with it, though slightly disappointed to find the soundboard on one of my guitars was too thick for it to fit. I'm relived to see you have similar experiences / problems / feelings as me regarding calibration Bob. I have started trying to vary the way I play notes while calibrating and the choice I make each time does have an effect on the resulting sounds. As yet I have only limited success with getting enough volume. I have noticed that the waveforms in my DAW are lower when I've done my Calibrated sound vs the Uncalibrated, so I'm not sure it's just an EQ effect.
I have had no problems at all with too boomy on any of my guitars but they are all of smaller size and most have strings that are less inclined to produce too much bass than the usual coated Elixir / D'Addario strings.
I agree with you that it looks like interference is the issue rather than the lead.
Your closing thought is exactly mine other than I have one guitar that is borderline too thick on the soundboard. It does mean the iRig mic attachment perches a bit precariously and with that guitar I wouldn't use it if there was a hard floor or if it was a live scenario.
I am overall very pleased with the iRig Acoustic Stage too and it certainly has a role to fill for me in being in partnership with some other recording method at the same time. Using both the iRig Acoustic and the built in microphones on the Zoom H4n at the same time gives very pleasing results Using it that way and also with the on board blended pickup system of the Vintage Giltrap guitar sounds extra good.
Many thanks for your comments guys. 
Mark
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Post by bobcarter on May 25, 2017 12:32:26 GMT
I'm wondering if I can come up with any DIY clip/clothes peg/paperclip type contraption to attach to the soundhole that would create a thinner edge for the mic to clip to on thicker soundboards.
No success yet but if anyone comes up with a hack let me know!
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Post by PistolPete on Jun 15, 2017 8:40:41 GMT
It would appear predictions of delicacy are all too true. I was demo-ing a song yesterday & the lead from the mic to the unit got snagged on my jeans  |
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leoroberts
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My main instrument is: probably needing new strings
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Post by leoroberts on Jun 15, 2017 8:44:00 GMT
Grrrr....
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Post by ocarolan on Jun 15, 2017 9:13:16 GMT
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Post by vikingblues on Jun 15, 2017 13:32:43 GMT
Damn and blast and buggrit! Bad news.   |
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Post by andyhowell on Jun 15, 2017 15:31:50 GMT
Oh well. An interesting experiment anyway.
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Post by bobcarter on Jun 21, 2017 17:55:40 GMT
It would appear predictions of delicacy are all too true. I was demo-ing a song yesterday & the lead from the mic to the unit got snagged on my jeans On no! That's no good at all. Be interesting to hear if IK agree replace it under warranty. They should I think as that sounds like normal use. |
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No fancy mobile phone - it is old style and gets switched off if I'm home - it's a plus that it means I'm not at it's beck and call all day! 
Jo whoever he is.
