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Post by dicky on Jan 19, 2018 10:55:11 GMT
hi there is anyone here able to write down the basic 3/4 finger pattern that ralph mctell uses. assuming he uses thumb and three fingers . thank you dicky
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ocarolan
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Post by ocarolan on Jan 19, 2018 12:18:21 GMT
....any particular song?
K
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Post by andyhowell on Jan 19, 2018 13:20:37 GMT
Ralph has song book which has a number of waltz's in it, played both in standard and dropped D. None of thee are particularly complicated and they will give you the basics which you can then use for most finger style waltz. The trick here is to feel comfortable with the patterns and then get up to speed through noodling. I'd definitely recommend buying this: www.ralphmctell.co.uk/shop/songs-for-six-strings-tab/I leant many of these years and years ago but still trot them out occasionally. They always go down well.
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Post by dicky on Jan 19, 2018 16:02:53 GMT
....any particular song? K winter lillies. let me down easy,dreams of you and the setting . the latter is a bit above my pay grade ,but hey ,no pain no gain. I am a travis style 4/4 picker and have trouble with some syncopated rythems ie disasociating thumb and fingers. and im getting on a bit so, time isn't on my side cheers dicky
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Post by dicky on Jan 19, 2018 16:48:40 GMT
Ralph has song book which has a number of waltz's in it, played both in standard and dropped D. None of thee are particularly complicated and they will give you the basics which you can then use for most finger style waltz. The trick here is to feel comfortable with the patterns and then get up to speed through noodling. I'd definitely recommend buying this: www.ralphmctell.co.uk/shop/songs-for-six-strings-tab/I leant many of these years and years ago but still trot them out occasionally. They always go down well. so ordered, now how to learn tab reading!!!!!
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Post by andyhowell on Jan 19, 2018 17:02:39 GMT
You learn tab's gently :-)
Don't take them too literally. Work with what sounds smooth to you.
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Post by ocarolan on Jan 19, 2018 17:02:51 GMT
OK, gotcha. "Pattern" is deceptive, as there are often many variations/fills/passing notes/melodies/harmoies/bass runs to think about in Ralph's songs. He is a master at making things sound effortless, but often his guitar parts can be very intricate yet subtle - something many Youtubers seem to miss in their "tutorials"!
Let me down easy - the recorded version on the album "Easy" has two acoustic guitars playing different styles, either of which makes a good solo accomp. You could mix the two up for variety eg by using one for the verse and the other for the chorus.
Guitar one : (perhaps try this out on a D chord as an exercise till it gets to be smooth) Place thumb on 4th string and fingers 1,2,3 on strings 3,2,1. Think of the three (crotchet) beats as being six (quaver) beats, then -
1 - thumb plays bass note (to sustain through 2-6) - often(though not always)the root note of the chord on 4th, 5th or 6th string as appropriate 2 - 1st finger plays 3rd string 3 - 2nd finger plays 2nd string 4 - 3rd finger plays 1st string 5 - 2nd finger plays 2nd string 6 - 1st finger plays 3rd string
repeat till you get it automatic, smooth and EVEN. Then try on some of the other chords in the song. Keep fingers playing top three strings but move the thumb to 5th or 6th strings when nec.
Guitar two plays a more "James Taylorish" thumb, finger upstroke, fingers downstroke/brush (experiment on a D chord) in the following sort of order -
1 - thumb plays bass note (similar to guitar one)eg string 4. 2 - 1st finger plays upstroke on eg string 3 3 - fingers (maybe just 2&3) play downstroke brushing eg strings 3,2,1 4 - fingers (maybe just 2&3) play upstroke brushing eg strings 2&1 5 - fingers (maybe just 2&3) play downstroke brushing eg strings 3,2,1 6 - fingers (maybe just 2&3) play upstroke brushing eg strings 2&1
The upstrokes (ie 2,4,6 above)can be omitted/included as you wish - try all variations, esp leaving out 4&6.
Each guitar part moves the bass note every bar or so with the chord change. If the chord stays the same for more than a bar then an alternating bass is usually played, eg F# on string 6 or an open A string on a D chord.
The arpeggiated part in guitar one is relatively easy to get the hang of as it is continually T12321,with the relevant digits alays keeping the same direction of stroke, and your hand can stay in roughly the same position, with only the thumb changing string where nec. Guitar two needs a "looser" hand position, and possibly more delicacy - the thumb note (1) should be strong, the first finger upstroke (2) light, then 3 and 5 strong, 4&6 light and v delicate or omitted.
All this looks so much harder written down than it is to play. Listen to Ralph's original recording and you will hear what each guitar is playing provided that you listen often enough and closely enough. Your ears can tell you far more than TAB ever can, though it can have its uses.
Winter Lilies I'll need to reacquaint myself with first! Dreams of you could be done with either of the above patterns, though Ralph doesn't quite! Lots of "join up" notes between the chords, and a nice melodic section too. Also often done on 12 string, which makes it sound more elaborate than it is The Setting is played in DADF#AD, has much less regularity with a lot of melodic work and and even Ralphie often stumbles when playing it!
Hope this makes sense and is at least a start towards being helpful!
Keith
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Post by andyhowell on Jan 19, 2018 22:44:47 GMT
I used to sing the Setting a lot but took the liberty of working out my own, simpler, arrangement!
Your right about the intricacy of Ralph’s style but these will sound great even made simple!
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Post by dicky on Jan 27, 2018 10:46:49 GMT
hi again , well , I got ralphs book. hard going and unless your an expert it might be a job to work out an unknown tune. in the book they made films of ralphs hands , I will ask if they still have them . you never know .a whole new generation of ralph mctell play alikes cheers
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Post by ocarolan on Jan 27, 2018 11:05:11 GMT
dicky - TAB always makes things look more complicated than they actually are, and aren't much help at picking out the "pulse" of the piece ...ears are better than eyes...listen to the song you want to learn - many times - carefully. Maybe 50 times or more. Then listen for the bass notes to hear what the thumb is doing - once you have the timing of those, listen hard to the other bits and fit them around the bass - try to include any particularly obvious melodic fragments, licks etc, but otherwise don't worry too much if it isn't quite what RMcT plays - keeping a relaxed and rhythmic flow is more important for most of the time. One really helpful thing that RMcT does for much of the time is to hold on to the basic chord shape as long as possible, adding notes (often with finger 4) or subtracting them (by lifting a finger) whilst hanging on to the other chord notes. By all means use the book to iron out any particular difficulties, but don't be a slave to it. All the best with the songs - let us know how you're getting on from time to time eh?! Keith
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Post by robmc on Jan 27, 2018 20:28:21 GMT
Hi dicky Mark Hanson's Travis picking books might be useful for you as he includes lots of songs in both 4/4 and 3/4. It really doesn't take much more than a minor shift to get the feel between the two and he has simple exercises that demonstrate and develop this.
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Post by andyhowell on Jan 30, 2018 17:42:39 GMT
Good advice from Keith. Concentrate on the thumb and bass on 6 and 4. Once that works you can fill in the other stuff.
It will come - honestly!
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