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Post by ianh on Jul 29, 2018 10:27:10 GMT
Hi bleatoid I'm a complete novice in the world of music generally, but at the age of 54 I decided I would face up to learning an instrument and bought a beautiful Eastman 504 from the lovely @robbiej , as he has mentioned Since then, I've been into hobgoblin a few times and played a few other mandolins, and even managed to get a go on a 1953 Gibson (as described in another thread somewhere). For my pennyworth: Yes to a-style, not f-style I love the oval hole: warm, resonant with lots of sustain. I have also bought a cheaper 'The Loar' f-hole which I use as my cheap travel Mando for taking on holiday etc As for brands, I have played nothing which even touches an Eastman. The basic model (304) retails at £529, but there is one for sale right now on eBay at £290: here - it's in the wirral there's also a 505 (f-hole) on sale at £575: hereThe 504 retails around £800, and is just divine Where are you based? I'm in Cumbria, and if that's anywhere near, you are welcome to come and play the two mandolins I have And feel free to PM me with any questions you have - having just been through the journey myself recently and really enjoyed it.... Ian |
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Post by ianh on Jul 29, 2018 10:39:45 GMT
There was one other thing I wanted to mention. A lot of English luthiers make flat-top mandolins, in the UK/celtic folk style. I think Fylde and Paul Hathaway are both like this. The US bluegrass tradition is much more geared to arch-top mandolins. I'm not sure whether there is much difference acoustically, but I have a personal preference for the arch top bluegrass style
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Post by bleatoid on Jul 29, 2018 10:54:39 GMT
Thanks Ian - for both those posts. Yep - I've been watching the ebay offerings and those two are on my watch list. I was also taken with a (lower end) Kentucky - only because it comes as a handy package with a load of tuition material, chord books etc. But most of the ebay offerings are f hole and your advice reinforces my thinking (as did comments from the other guys on this thread) that round hole (and A style) is the way to go tone wise (plus I'd be able to use my irig pickup with it, plus I prefer the aesthetics).
But your last comment about archtop is very timely - following onechordtrick's pointers I've looked around a couple more UK mandolin makers and like the others I've seen they are flat tops. Eastman make a big issue of their hand carved arch tops - others like Kentucky seem to press rather than carve, Is there a tone benefit here? - or is the arch top mandolin a hangover from structural build thinking before bracing engineering moved forward? My Martin sounds pretty good, but you don't see any flat top members of the violin family (to my knowledge).
Peter
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Post by bleatoid on Jul 29, 2018 11:07:56 GMT
I must add as well that I have never regretted learning new instrument- they have all moved my musicality on in some way. Financially I might have regretted a few purchases! But the discipline of learning new skills is an absolute joy to me, and exploring what each instrument can do is all part of the exciting new journey we each take when we take up something new. Robbie That's a huge part of the rationale for this journey of mine Robbie - the smile of satisfaction from cracking a new challenge with some different parameters in the mix. But there's a gradient issue here too, isn't there - you need to be able to see some progress to offset the frustration and refill the enthusiasm tank. A couple of years back I was mad keen on taking up the cello. I had a cunning plan to avoid the "cheap starter" pitfall by getting a second hand Yamaha silent cello so I'd have a decent instrument with a decent sound through my headphones or Roland acoustic amp but for the most part my wife would remain reasonably sane and the local cats reasonably quiet. Then I did a bit of research and was deterred by comments (from musically experienced people taking up cello) along the lines that after 3 years of lessons they were finally seeing some stability in their bowing technique...... Martin's comments about his struggle with the pick reminded me of those issues - hence my (revised plan) to at least get a mandolin in my hand before taking the leap - though I still think it represents a shallower learning gradient than my cello aspirations. (hang on.......Mandocello anyone....?) Peter |
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Post by Onechordtrick on Jul 29, 2018 11:54:40 GMT
I wouldn’t get too hung up on the arch vs. flattop issue, I think the differences are marginal and you’ll get a greater difference in sound between different manufacturers, woods and soundholes. For what it’s worth I preferred the sound of the flattop Hathway over the archtop Eastmans that I played, but that’s very subjective.
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Post by martinrowe on Jul 29, 2018 11:57:31 GMT
Peter Good point about the progress thing: 'refill the enthusiasm tank'. In the early days I couldn't reproduce the sound I'd got the day before. It felt like I was getting nowhere. Progress was all I wanted - no matter how slow. I also wanted to use learning a new instrument to do all the things that people say you should do i.e. get good technique, play slowly and get it right, etc. I think learning to read music was in there as well, but that didn't happen. I also knew that there comes a point where it gells. I think it was stubborness that kept me going. I'm glad I persevered though - I'm really enjoying playing now. 'I am now quite clear in my mind that Mr Davidson's wife's beautiful inlay work will greatly improve my fretting hand position......' - brilliant Thanks for this thread - it's become an interesting discussion on the benefits and pitfalls of doing something new that is non trivial. Now then - back to practising  Martin |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 29, 2018 13:43:25 GMT
There is a very pronounced difference between arch top and flattop. You need to play both to see what you like. Then of course there is are makers like Paul Shippey who builds an brilliant mandolin called the ‘Axe’ which has a flat top but arched back. And Rory Dowling of Taran builds an arch top but flat back (like Sobell). In fact Paul’s Axe is only a little above your top budget 😉.
Robbie
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Post by ianh on Jul 29, 2018 16:47:15 GMT
This is all really interesting stuff for beginners like me. Reminds me why the forum is so useful...
Just a comment on the Kentucky mandolins: A lot of US web forums recommend them. I have played a 140 and a 150 in hobgoblin, and while the latter was quite nice,they were not as impressive as the Eastman.
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Post by ianh on Jul 29, 2018 16:48:56 GMT
Oh yes. For tuition, I have found mandolessons.com particularly helpful
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Post by Onechordtrick on Jul 29, 2018 17:15:11 GMT
This is all really interesting stuff for beginners like me. Reminds me why the forum is so useful... Just a comment on the Kentucky mandolins: A lot of US web forums recommend them. I have played a 140 and a 150 in hobgoblin, and while the latter was quite nice,they were not as impressive as the Eastman. That was my feeling as well, but the higher end Kentucky’s are better respected. |
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Post by bleatoid on Jul 29, 2018 18:01:49 GMT
There is a very pronounced difference between arch top and flattop. You need to play both to see what you like. Then of course there is are makers like Paul Shippey who builds an brilliant mandolin called the ‘Axe’ which has a flat top but arched back. And Rory Dowling of Taran builds an arch top but flat back (like Sobell). In fact Paul’s Axe is only a little above your top budget 😉. Robbie Ah, man, those Paul Shippey instruments are stunning. Thank you for the mission creep assistance Robbie - most (un)helpful! (Note to self: stop dribbling at the mando-porn, Peter, and go practice something). We do seem to be spoilt for choice with quality Mandolin luthiers in the UK, covering a pretty broad spectrum of the higher-end price bracket don't we? |
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Post by Craig on Jul 30, 2018 9:24:58 GMT
I had a similar hankering for a mandolin for many years and eventually bought myself an Eastman MD614.
Overall I love it but some of the tuning pegs get extremely stiff at certain parts of their rotation.
I took it back to the shop to be told by the tech that "yeah, some of them are like that"
That's a shop I won't be returning to.
Craig
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Post by bleatoid on Jul 30, 2018 22:49:11 GMT
That's disgraceful Craig - for an instrument like that - not an issue I've seen elsewhere with Eastman who seem to get a very positive press across all their range of instruments - but as you say, spectacularly narrow-minded of the store that sold you the instrument as a quality, high end piece from the Eastman range. I suppose you could contact Eastman or maybe look to change the tuners - I see they use Pingwell - not a brand I'm familiar with (but that means little). Several other brands I've been looking at use Gotoh tuners which I have heard of. Stew-Mac seems a popular place with some of the members on this forum looking for hardware upgrades.... Maybe someone with more experience than me could chip in with some advice. Hope you get it sorted one way or another. Peter |
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Post by Craig on Aug 5, 2018 10:43:22 GMT
Well it seems that the shop in question closed it's doors for the last time some time later!
Craig
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mandovark
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Post by mandovark on Aug 5, 2018 21:38:46 GMT
There is a very pronounced difference between arch top and flattop. You need to play both to see what you like. Then of course there is are makers like Paul Shippey who builds an brilliant mandolin called the ‘Axe’ which has a flat top but arched back. And Rory Dowling of Taran builds an arch top but flat back (like Sobell). In fact Paul’s Axe is only a little above your top budget 😉. Robbie Ah, man, those Paul Shippey instruments are stunning. Thank you for the mission creep assistance Robbie - most (un)helpful! (Note to self: stop dribbling at the mando-porn, Peter, and go practice something). We do seem to be spoilt for choice with quality Mandolin luthiers in the UK, covering a pretty broad spectrum of the higher-end price bracket don't we? Our own ajlucas built a pair of mandolins as an experiment a few years ago, with identical specs except that the back of one was carved and the other was flat (both had carved tops). I played them both, and there was a noticeable difference - the flat back sounded a bit more open, where the carved back had a clearer, more bell-like tone and I think a little more punch. It suggested that although we tend to talk a lot about the top, the shaping of the back can have a similar effect on the sound. I ended up buying the carved back one, but I believe the flat back is still available on Adrian’s website. It’s a really nice mandolin. |
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Jo whoever he is.
