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Post by bleatoid on Jul 27, 2018 21:24:25 GMT
Apologies for the epic. Like you, I hate those “what should I buy for my GAS, please help school me” posts – this isn’t quite one of those.
But…..I have developed a hankering for a mandolin to open up some fresh avenues, interests and ideas, including backing myself on home recordings and to help me explore celtic and English folk music (or even bluegrass…). I don’t play in a band, or live, nor am I ever likely to. This will be for solo home use. I don’t want a starter / “budget” model (to "test the water") as I think I’ll stick the course, (and besides, I have a much more talented great nephew it will go to when I croak) but I’d like to make a more informed decision on something reasonably mid-range. I’m perfectly happy with second hand (in excellent nick) and my budget is around £500-£1000-ish (as I deserve a treat).
Background? I’m a poor intermediate acoustic guitar player. Pretty simple stuff – mainly folky / bluesy themes, almost exclusively fingerpicking – with my fingertips. I almost never use a pick, flat or otherwise (I can, I just prefer fingertips). Oh – and I have a banjo which I can play a little (fingerstyle rolls, not clawhammer – again just fingertips) the point being that I’m reasonably happy moving to a different string format / tuning / narrow nut width.
From my research to date (there seem to be very few mandolin reviews?), looks like A style (less cost in the fancy build, no major bluegrass focus), round hole (softer, warmer, no mix to cut through) from a manufacturer like Eastman, Fylde, Moon….etc (good reputation, solid wood build etc)…. would fit the bill? And almost certainly a mandolin (rather than any other mando-family members)? Probably prefer a UK brand if possible. I’ve noticed the Fylde website targets the guitar player / aspiring mandolinist in terms of nut width / scale length on their touchstone models….
So why not just go try some, Peter? Well, local town big music store chains have nothing decent so a day trip to a HobGoblin would be the obvious choice but they don’t appear to stock much by way of mid range stuff – bar maybe Ashbury? Then there are specialist options in the major cities or even Trevor at his wonderful TAMCO emporium – but those are a major day out for me – and besides – what am I going to do when I get there? a) I have never played a mandolin (or any other four course instrument) and b) I hate playing in public - I'd just clam up and walk out. I could maybe get a sense of playability and tone, but not to the extent I’d feel able to make an informed buying decision.
This isn't like buying another guitar. Plus - I don't know anyone with a mandolin that I could even use as a point of reference.
Or...... I could put my faith in a trusted source of wide experience…...(I’ve bought a couple of guitars sight-unseen from forum members in the past and they’ve been great)......so…… if someone were to suggest that I really can’t go far wrong just getting an ABC from XYZ (yep – I know – there’s always “duds” and there's this issue called personal preference...), or that I should focus on going to PDQ for the day and they'd sort me out from a good choice, or to forget about round hole / f hole distinction or carved / pressed / flat tops as it really doesn’t matter given where I'm at, or that there’s a nice looking used 123 for sale somewhere (nothing in the Soundboard classifieds ATM), or to beware such-and-such at all costs.... then that would be really helpful.
Hang on - maybe you have a lovely mandolin that you just know I couldn’t go far wrong with and you’ve being thinking that it’s not been getting much play time recently given your other 3 that you've just bought......
Anyway- thanks for your patience if you’ve got this far, and all (constructive and biologically feasible) suggestions welcome!
Peter
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Post by Deleted on Jul 28, 2018 3:21:33 GMT
You cannot go far wrong with an Eastman in my opinion. My 504 that I sold to ianh (the one in his avatar) certainly lacked for nothing against mandolins three times it’s price owned by members of my mandolin orchestra. Personally I’ve always preferred the look of oval holes. There are also differences in sound. Trevor at Trevor TAMCO has more or less the full range of Eastman in stock. The 600 series btw have built in pickups. Hope that helps, Robbie |
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Post by Onechordtrick on Jul 28, 2018 5:51:32 GMT
Good call on not going for a starter, mine nearly put me off playing! You’ll definitely get more value with an A style over an F, you pay a premium for the fancy scroll. As to f hole vs oval it’s a matter of preference. I played the equivalent Eastman oval and f holes side by side and prefer the sound of oval holes. The f had a more bluegrass sound, the oval more Celtic. As @robbiej says you won’t go wrong with an Eastman. If I were buying unheard I’d go for one of their 500 range When I was searching at the start of the year I was disappointed with the Ashbury range, although I have a lovely Ashbury octave mandolin. Another brand to consider is Kentucky, they’re well respected on the mandolin cafe forum. Another UK based builder to consider is Paul Hathway, but that might be a case of recommend what you play  If you can try and play or hear some. Where are you based? Is there a local folk group near you where you could go and listen to some instruments? Good luck in your search, and whatever you get make sure it’s set up properly! |
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Post by bleatoid on Jul 28, 2018 9:45:01 GMT
You cannot go far wrong with an Eastman in my opinion. My 504 that I sold to ianh (the one in his avatar) certainly lacked for nothing against mandolins three times it’s price owned by members of my mandolin orchestra. Personally I’ve always preferred the look of oval holes. There are also differences in sound. Trevor at Trevor TAMCO has more or less the full range of Eastman in stock. The 600 series btw have built in pickups. Hope that helps, Robbie It certainly does - thanks Robbie - shame I missed your 504 in the classifieds.... Peter |
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Post by bleatoid on Jul 28, 2018 9:51:32 GMT
Thanks onechordtrick - good to know the "avoid a starter model" seems sound thinking, and another plug for Eastman as a reliable option noted.
Not heard of Paul Hathway so will look into that option and other small luthiers - but suspect they might be beyond my budget.
Folk club is an excellent idea - I'm Banbury area but not a member of a folk club, nor do I know of any - but I'll find one.
Much appreciated - thanks.
Peter
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Post by Onechordtrick on Jul 28, 2018 10:31:13 GMT
I’m the other end of the county so don’t know what goes on in “the far North” but folkinoxford.co.uk is a good resource. Hathway are very well priced and within your budget, or there’s a second hand Moon on Hobgoblin at the moment |
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Post by bleatoid on Jul 28, 2018 11:20:25 GMT
I’m the other end of the county so don’t know what goes on in “the far North” but folkinoxford.co.uk is a good resource. Hathway are very well priced and within your budget, or there’s a second hand Moon on Hobgoblin at the moment Haha - ah yes, the desolate frozen wastes of North Oxfordshire. Thanks for these Onechordtrick - excellent leads - had a quick look at folkinoxford - very interesting - we actually venture (very tentatively) into the distant South quite regularly for concerts (was in Oxford last weekend) - Plus Paul Hathway looks very interesting and very reasonably priced. Must be some folk clubs in the Banbury area - we're in Fairport land.... Peter |
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Post by martinrowe on Jul 28, 2018 14:39:39 GMT
I bought a mandolin three years ago for a similar reason. My thinking went something like this: I can't use a plectrum at the moment so this will help me to learn to use a plectrum - this will be good. I'll then also be able to use a plectrum on my guitar and even at some point, try some Gypsy Jazz Django stuff that I've always wanted to play. Two birds with one stone - this will also be good. It will also improve my ear as the need to tune pairs of strings in unison will fine tune my ear. This will also be good, etc, etc. I already play the guitar so I'll be able to transfer my knowledge and it should be fairly easy - just an extension of guitar playing i.e. the fretting hand will be fine, I'll be concentrating on the picking hand. Playing a mandolin will be fairly easy... I already play the guitar. I was wrong on all of the above. For me, learning to use a plectrum has been ******* murder (rest strokes, down and up strokes, pick stroke theory, tremelo) but I've finally got to a stage where I can play some scales, fiddle tunes, and chop chords and they sound OK. In fact, I'm really enjoying the tone I'm now getting - but it's that sort of instrument - you really have to work to get the tone you want. Striking pairs of strings is very different from striking one string. I have found learning to play the mandolin far more difficult than learning to play the guitar - then again the early days of playing the guitar were very frustrating. I found the same with the mandolin i.e. I had to start from scratch. Even holding a mandolin and keeping the instrument still can be a challenge - it is very different from a guitar. Also, stating the obvious here, the frets on a mandolin are very small. The only really transferable skill, for me, has been musical theory. I now think of the mandolin as a 'proper instrument' - similar to a violin or any orchestral instrument - but I think I knew that and that that was one of the reasons I took it up. So, it's been a tough uphill struggle for me i.e. thinking I'd cracked it, being overjoyed, then realising I hadn't. I've just about got there now but it 'sure has been a long, hard climb'. The positive thing - and for me this outweighs all of the negatives I've mentioned above. Before I started on the mandolin path I had started to think of myself as a fairly good musician (fool, fool, I hear the wise amongst you mutter) e.g. I'd got as far as being able to fluently play some Martin Simpson tabs in open tunings on the guitar. Nothing wrong with that - it's not beginners stuff. I think I'd found a comfort zone The struggle of the last three years I think has given me a new degree of humility - and I thought I was pretty good at it before. Learning a new instrument from scratch like this has been refreshing and has made me think more about music e.g. something this enjoyable costs - of course it does. It's endless. Anyway, thanks, you gave me a chance to get that off my chest - rant over. Other people may have just taken it up and made the transition fairly easily - b*******. I started with a Jimmy Moon basic model that I may want to sell - I don't know. Selling a mandolin just seems wrong but I'm not really using it. I'm left handed so I asked David Oddy (before he passed away) to fix a left handed nut and bridge. I still have the old bits though. I may want to sell it so send me a message if you want (Keith will put this right if I've broken any rules). I moved on to a Davidson (I knew I was in for the long haul) that I bought at auction - I took a chance and struck lucky. Now, back to trying to master tremelo - should only take another 6 months - if I'm lucky. I've found it a very frustrating, very rewarding experience - in equal measure. So much so that I now think of the guitar as a second (inferior) instrument (hmmm, hope that doesn't cause an avalanche). P'S Anyone got a good Davidson or Vanden f hole - that's my next step Martin |
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Post by bleatoid on Jul 28, 2018 18:01:42 GMT
Hmmm - that's strong food for thought - my premise was, in part, that I should be OK going with a decent model of a respected brand because my limited competence level with a fretted instrument will give me a headstart - hence no need to try one.......
That said, I am quite happy with a flat pick, though four couses of two strings might deflate that confidence quite quickly.
Really helpful Lessons learnt story Martin - I think I need to go to the local chain store and try a couple just for the experience before any other next steps.
Much appreciated.
Peter
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Post by martinrowe on Jul 28, 2018 19:01:44 GMT
No problem - hope it wasn't too strong.
If you're happy with a flatpick you probably won't have the same amount of problems I had.
Here's two giving advice who are recognised as a couple of the best.
If you don't know him then Simon Mayor is recognised as one of the best English mandolin players.
If you try an Oval Hole then most people recommend some sort of strap.
Everyone says Eastman's are really good. If you can find a second hand Davidson then they're top of the range.
Martin
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Post by Deleted on Jul 28, 2018 19:52:37 GMT
Gosh Martin, I really hope you have found some enjoyment in what seems like a tortuous journey  . From my own experience, I can say that flatpicking a mandolin HAS improved my plectrum technique overall, but I feel it’s essential to get the right sort of plectrum for playing mandolin. The biggest challenge for guitarists coming to the instrument is getting over the fact that on mandolin you use your four fingers to cover 7 frets, not the 4 frets you would on a guitar. The excellent books by Simon Mayer should certainly help get you started, as well as resources like Mandolessons.com on YouTube. Robbie |
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Post by bleatoid on Jul 28, 2018 22:14:16 GMT
Thank you, Martin and Robbie, for the insights and resource links. Those videos are interesting - I have just seriously downgraded my own self-assessment of pick competence! There's obviously rather more technical nous to this mandolin stuff than meets the eye.
Isn't it odd though, how on the one hand it is easy to become slightly deflated at one's instrument competence level - current or potential - whilst at the same time subconsciously justifying a move of the budgetary goalposts when pointed towards a superb luthier's website with lots of lovely pictures.
I am now quite clear in my mind that Mr Davidson's wife's beautiful inlay work will greatly improve my fretting hand position......
Peter
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Post by martinrowe on Jul 28, 2018 22:20:00 GMT
Robbie
Perhaps I gave the wrong impression - I'm in a pretty good place now and really like the tone I'm getting.
I'm settled on a Wegen pick. That was part of the problem: spending money on picks that I discovered I didn't like was, for me, a complete waste of time.
I found the whole process very frustrating to start with - impatience I think, and also not being able to do things on one instrument that I knew I could do fairly easily on another.
But as I point out it taught me some important lessons about my attitude to music. The correct mindset for me is that I'm only a beginner - always - and no matter how good I get, this should always be the case.
A quote I picked up from a Stuart Ryan workshop, that I've mentioned before, comes to mind. He described some advice he got from Eric Roche that went something like this: 'In your next practice session try and play something in a key that you never play in (e.g. E flat with no Capo) and see how you get on. After 10 minutes you'll probably feel like the worst guitar player in the world - but you'll have made more progress in that 10 minutes than you usually do in an hour. I think the experience had something of that about it.
Good to hear from another Plymothian. I'm originally from Austin Farm.
Martin
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Post by Deleted on Jul 29, 2018 8:10:27 GMT
Good to hear from another Plymothian. I'm originally from Austin Farm. Martin Ah, didn’t know you were a Plymothian. I moved around a fare bit- my mum could never settle. Born in st. Budeaux, then a couple of years at the end of Union Street, then Leigham. School at St Boniface college, with those evil Christian Brothers 😡 Thats good advice from Eric Roche. I think that’s why I like learning new instruments and new tunings. I remember my first couple of months with my bass, where nothing I seemed to do felt right, and being a reasonably competent guitarist I felt like I OUGHT to be able to play the bass as well!! Got there in the end I think (even if I was the only person who enjoyed the results!) Robbie |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 29, 2018 9:46:42 GMT
I must add as well that I have never regretted learning new instrument- they have all moved my musicality on in some way. Financially I might have regretted a few purchases! But the discipline of learning new skills is an absolute joy to me, and exploring what each instrument can do is all part of the exciting new journey we each take when we take up something new.
Robbie
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. From my own experience, I can say that flatpicking a mandolin HAS improved my plectrum technique overall, but I feel it’s essential to get the right sort of plectrum for playing mandolin. The biggest challenge for guitarists coming to the instrument is getting over the fact that on mandolin you use your four fingers to cover 7 frets, not the 4 frets you would on a guitar. The excellent books by Simon Mayer should certainly help get you started, as well as resources like Mandolessons.com on YouTube.
Jo whoever he is.
